Northern players declaring for the Republic

[lopez]

" I've also got Malcolm Brodie's two excellent, if slightly misnamed, histories of Irish football (very little outside of County Down and Antrim), although (if I remember correctly) Brodie's thesis is also that partition forced the split."
A great journalist is our Malcolm. Of particular interest to me concerning the history of the two Associations was the selection by the IFA of players from both jurisdictions post partition, and the period when that ceased.

Also got his book on Linfield. I spoke to him once around ten years ago and found him a great bloke. His first article I read was in the FA Cup programme of 1979 when he wrote of the number of players playing in the match from both Irish teams, and how sad there wasn't an all-Ireland team. I think he's still doing stuff for the ISN but he must be ancient now.

As for the selection of an all-Ireland team post partition, this paractice had to end because of the World Cup (players could not represent two teams). I believe that the IFA first entry was the 1950 World Cup. The British Championship was still the second major football tournament right up to 1980 IMO. The IFA still represented 'Ireland' in the competition and in this competition it received the support from the south just as much as the north long after southern players stopped playing. Certainly as a kid my father always saw this side as still representing Ireland and I did until I became more political and could see that this was no longer the case.

When the southern players stopped playing I don't think the issue of anthems etc were much of a problem. All four teams probably had GSTK as the anthem - that's if it was even played - and the 26C had not become fully independent until a year before the 1950 Wales game which was the last time the all-Ireland side played. The saddest thing about the period was the lack of success. The team was cr*p after the famous 1914 win in the competition despite having the best Irish players at its disposal. I don't know if you've ever seen photos of the post war period but both Irish teams wore exactly the same shirts (basically Irish rugby shirts with the shield and shamrocks). I saw photos of the teams at the 1994 exhibition, held near Queen's University, about Northern Irish football.

"One big difference with this site is that people are more inclined to stand up and disagree with others, and you can see this on this thread. Within the 40 odd pages on this theme on OWC there is little dissent - naitonalists excepted - from the above line"
We have our differences of opinion on OWC on a wide range of issues - anthem, flag etc. It's interesting that many of the "harder line" Northern Ireland fans detest OWC - would view it as a site moderated by "liberal, handringers". The Northern Ireland section on the Irish League Forums would give you an alternative view of the opinions of Northern Ireland fans on a wide range of issues.

I believe that the Irish League Forums has always been members only, so I've never joined. Is it more 'harder line'? Maybe I should pop in and check it out. As for those hardliners - or 'superprods' as I've seen them described on OWC - not liking the forum, well as I said the site isn't followfollow.com, so that's understandable.

"It claims to be the moderate face of NI football - no 'superprods' etc. - but more than a small minority have replaced the Republic as their hate figure where a decade ago, taigbashing would be considered harmless fun."

I don't believe it has made any such claim to be "the moderate face of Northern Ireland fotball" - there is a wide range of opinions expressed.

It may not claim it, but as you've stated above, the fact that the more 'loyal' support find it anathema proves it to be the case.

I think many Northern Ireland fans would consider the ROI to be their main rivals - proximity etc. I appreciate that most ROI fans do not feel the same way. Bit like Fulham considering Chelsea to be their rivals, but Chelsea wouldn't really have Fulham on the radar as rivals.

To me it can only ever be England as our great rivals, and not for footballing reasons as they've yet to beat us in 20 years, despite five opportunities.

I have never engaged in "taigbashing". I have opinions, and I express them on discussion Boards. I view attacks, verbal or otherwise, on people solely on account of their religious beliefs to be abhorent. I am absolutely consistent on that.

I think you can be equally bigotted without bringing religion into it. I think it is English media ignorance that still portrays the NI situation as a religious battle. To me it's nationalism, even if there are people on the extremes of both sides that actually think God is going to fry all those that don't go to their particular religious nightclub. It works both way. Anti-Britishness isn't always anti-Protestantism, but it doesn't stop it being viewed as such by unionists.

"And before you and the monkey who has come over with you"
I don't know which "monkey" you are referring to. Comments like that do you no favours - resorting to personal abuse will not further your, reasonably put, point of view.

You have come here to at least argue your case with dignity, even if I haven't made it easy for you and I admit, often provoked you. Unlike other(s) however, your intention isn't to ram your politics down my throat, make up stories about paramilitary politicians leaning on footballers, and generally try to wind people up with sh*t about British army folk songs. I think you know the difference between someone like GSpain and Wee Mexican on OWC and other sh*tstirrers that have joined its forum.

[Not Brazil]

lopez,

"Also got his book on Linfield. I spoke to him once around ten years ago and found him a great bloke."

Yes indeed, he did a very good job on the history of Linfield.

He must be in his eighties now - see him on many of the away trips, and his still approaches his job with a rare enthusiasm. He's still a very "active" man for one of his years, but that's another story.

"I think he's still doing stuff for the ISN but he must be ancient now"

Still writes for the Belfast Telegraph occasionally, and is a regular reporter for the NOTW under one of his aliases, "Don Ardmore".

A hughely respected journalist - has attended and reported on every World Cup Finals since 1952, including this year in Germany.

"I believe that the Irish League Forums has always been members only, so I've never joined. Is it more 'harder line'?"

I think it is "members only" to view, with posting restrictions (25 per month?) for those who are not "Patrons".

Certainly, many of the Northern Ireland fan posters on there would be very anti OWC.

"Maybe I should pop in and check it out"

I look in from time to time, but don't post. Overall, I like the site tho - mainly Irish League game regulars on there, and some good "wit".

"As for those hardliners - or 'superprods' as I've seen them described on OWC - not liking the forum, well as I said the site isn't followfollow.com, so that's understandable."

I've never been on the "followfollow" Board, so I cannot comment on it - I have no attachment whatsoever to Scottish fooball generally.

Much prefer my Irish League fix TBH.

"It may not claim it, but as you've stated above, the fact that the more 'loyal' support find it anathema proves it to be the case."

I think the situation is that the OWC site owner and moderating team are all very supportive of the "Football For All" initiative. As we all know, some find change threatening. I believe some believe the whole FFA initiative is about appeasement - and therefore resent it.

"To me it can only ever be England as our great rivals, and not for footballing reasons as they've yet to beat us in 20 years, despite five opportunities."

My signature might suggest to you that we like getting one over them too.

"I think you can be equally bigotted without bringing religion into it"

Agre 100%.

"I think it is English media ignorance that still portrays the NI situation as a religious battle To me it's nationalism"

Absolutely. Nationality and identity.

"Anti-Britishness isn't always anti-Protestantism, but it doesn't stop it being viewed as such by unionists."

And ditto, anti republicanism isn't always anti -Catholicism.

I'm lucky in a sense that I have never understood, or wanted to understand, the small differences in doctrine of various strands of exactly the same religion.

"You have come here to at least argue your case with dignity, even if I haven't made it easy for you and I admit, often provoked you."

I don't think I have felt provoked, and nor have I been deliberately provocative.

I express my heartfelt views and opinions - in doing so, I expect to be challenged on them.

"I think you know the difference between someone like GSpain and Wee Mexican on OWC and other sh*tstirrers that have joined its forum"

I haven't had the pleasure of meeting Wee Mexican, but he is a respected contributor to the OWC Board. Of course, his views will exercise some, but isn't that always the case when an "outsider" appears on the scene.

I have had the pleasure of meeting Gspain on several occassions now - I have attended two Northern Ireland matches in his company in recent times - Azerbaijan last October, and Spain last month.

I hope to join him at the forthcoming San Marino game in Dublin - work commitments permitting.

Fair to say, Gspain is no "**** stirrer" - a man whose opinions, knowledge of Irish football, and devotion to supporting the ROI, I have total admiration for.

A "football man".

[Lionel Ritchie]

"I think you know the difference between someone like GSpain and Wee Mexican on OWC and other sh*tstirrers that have joined its forum"

I haven't had the pleasure of meeting Wee Mexican, but he is a respected contributor to the OWC Board. Of course, his views will exercise some, but isn't that always the case when an "outsider" appears on the scene.
.

I believe I have pointed out on one or other board before that I, Lionel Ritchie, am in fact Wee Mexican. Just thought I should chuck that in for what's it they call it ...truth and accuracy ...yes that's it truth and accuracy.

I joined the northern board first ...Wee Mex then had no sense or relevance when I arrived here so I took Lionel Ritchie -he being a Commodore -as my badge of shame for only getting to see Limerick Once, Twice, three times a season.

But heh ...enough about me

[Not Brazil]

I believe I have pointed out on one or other board before that I, Lionel Ritchie, am in fact Wee Mexican. Just thought I should chuck that in for what's it they call it ...truth and accuracy ...yes that's it truth and accuracy.

I joined the northern board first ...Wee Mex then had no sense or relevance when I arrived here so I took Lionel Ritchie -he being a Commodore -as my badge of shame for only getting to see Limerick Once, Twice, three times a season.

But heh ...enough about me

Hello - is it me you're looking for?

[Mr_Parker]

"One big difference with this site is that people are more inclined to stand up and disagree with others, and you can see this on this thread. Within the 40 odd pages on this theme on OWC there is little dissent - naitonalists excepted - from the above line"

We have our differences of opinion on OWC on a wide range of issues - anthem, flag etc.

"And before you and the monkey who has come over with you start suggesting I have some form of unhealthy fixation with this site, where else are we to guage unionist NI fans opinions?"

It's interesting that many of the "harder line" Northern Ireland fans detest OWC - would view it as a site moderated by "liberal, handringers".

The Northern Ireland section on the Irish League Forums would give you an alternative view of the opinions of Northern Ireland fans on a wide range of issues.

OWC should not be seen as any sort of barometer of the views of NI fans. If you don't toe the party line it doesn't take long for you to be barred. Alternative views on many issues are not welcome and they have barred people from all sides of the community in case it sullies their precious image that they have created for themselves.

ILF is a much better site for discussion and debate.

[lopez]

"As for those hardliners - or 'superprods' as I've seen them described on OWC - not liking the forum, well as I said the site isn't followfollow.com, so that's understandable."
I've never been on the "followfollow" Board, so I cannot comment on it - I have no attachment whatsoever to Scottish fooball generally. Much prefer my Irish League fix TBH.

I'm no follower of the SPL either, but I have looked into the site. It's sad I know, but if I can go on **********.org for a good laugh then Follow.follow can be just as entertaining. My first visit was around the time of the Scotland v Ireland game in February 2003. It's fair to say, there were not a lot of happy bunnies on it. It did provide me with some side-splitting laughs.

As I said, OWC has nothing on it - I can go from the former to the latter as a 'detox' if we're talking scales of 'Britishness' and more importantly 'Protestantism. One post that I remember asked: 'How comes if you marry a catholic, and you say that religion isn't going to interfere, three months later she's got pictures of Juan Pablo, crucifixes and a statue of the infant of Prague around the house?'

"To me it can only ever be England as our great rivals, and not for footballing reasons as they've yet to beat us in 20 years, despite five opportunities."
My signature might suggest to you that we like getting one over them too.

I was going to say it must be nearly about the same time they last beat you but I remember that you lost the away game.

Fair to say, Gspain is no "**** stirrer" - a man whose opinions, knowledge of Irish football, and devotion to supporting the ROI, I have total admiration for. A "football man".

I hope you didn't misunderstand me about GSpain (Me, Sylvo and Pat O'Banton got p*ssed with him at a U21 game in the Champagne region two years ago, so I'm certainly not bad mouthing him). I was of course talking about trollers and troublemakers.

Hello - is it me you're looking for?

I think it's time you got your coat.

OWC should not be seen as any sort of barometer of the views of NI fans. If you don't toe the party line it doesn't take long for you to be barred. Alternative views on many issues are not welcome and they have barred people from all sides of the community in case it sullies their precious image that they have created for themselves. ILF is a much better site for discussion and debate.

That's not unusual amongst football web sites. I don't regularly go on other footie sites - many are members only anyway - but one I look at is a Deportivo La Coruna site based in Cork. There is absolutly no arguing on it and you know it's pointless to raise your voice.

That's why I think this is, to paraphrase Butt-Head, 'the coooooolest forum I've ever seen'. I joined at the time of McCarthy's resignation in 2002 and it was like walking into a barroom brawl. Cyber-wise, people were getting chairs broken over their backs. I've been banned about five times now but I still get let back on (however the bans are getting longer so I think patience is wearing thin ). Perhaps the core posters on OWC all know each other a bit too much. I wouldn't go off on one if I was good friends with other posters.

[Gather round]

Joining this one a bit late. Actually it seems quite civilised

If guys from NI want to declare for the Republic, fine. Even if they're 20 and previously played for our youth sides. It'd be unfair to criticise teenagers too harshly for choosing which football team to play for.

I'll reserve judgement on whether there should be some form of compensation, in the latter cases.

BTW although I doubt anyone here would want to pass off their cyber-ramblings (gracias, Lopez) as representative of anyone else, remember the numbers watching local football in Ireland aren't that high. The ILF's and OWC's memberships must be comparable to the aggregate turnout on a wet November Saturday. As I may have mentioned to the good Senor when we met at an English FA Cup tie, Hemel Hempstead v Worcester the other day. Ex-foot.ie stalwart RD Bloomfield was also there in his capacity as Worcester's assistant beverages manager.

[lopez]

Joining this one a bit late. Actually it seems quite civilised ...The ILF's and OWC's memberships must be comparable to the aggregate turnout on a wet November Saturday. As I may have mentioned to the good Senor when we met at an English FA Cup tie, Hemel Hempstead v Worcester the other day. Ex-foot.ie stalwart RD Bloomfield was also there in his capacity as Worcester's assistant beverages manager.

Civilised, to a certain degree, no doubt, because RD has not been allowed on this site.

Anyway, I hope you didn't have to spend too much longer than necessary, supping in what is fast becoming a top contender for the cr*ppiest town in Britain...

http://www.chavtowns.co.uk/modules.p...rticle&sid=652

...and that RD, aka gonzo, aka Davros, aka Adios Adair et al, stayed out of trouble. It has been a long time since I've been a minority papist drinking amongst, as RD would put it 'two, er, members of that fine tradition.' BTW, the HH chairman said something about 'knowing where you lived' and 'that he hadn't gone away, you know.'