Socialism in Ireland

[WeAreRovers]

It was the Anti-Poll tax campaign that finished her. Who led that? Militant.

Excellent piece of revisionism there. Even Class War have more of a claim to ending the poll tax than Militant. The Millies latched on to a mass movement - like they did with the Miners Strike, Troops Out and almost any cause you can mention.

Bandwagon jumping is official Militant policy. Same goes for your brothers in daft Trotskyism, the SWP. They invented the Anti Nazi league purely as a recruiting tool. All authoritarian politics sucks - left and right.

BTW I was briefly involved with Militant 20 years ago so I know what I'm talking about. The Moonies with a newspaper.

KOH

[BohsPartisan]

Briefly? Obviously not long enough. Even Thatcher acknowledged our role. Ask anyone in Scotland who led tha Anti Poll tax struggle they'll tell you it was Militant and Tommy Sheridan. Militant set up the Fed (Anti-Poll Tax Federation). Class War? you must be joking. In 1988 Militant had 8,000 members in Britain. I doubt Class War ever had 800 members. Militant held a conference in Wembley Arena ffs.

You can't compare SWP's use of fronts and our involvement in fronts. I've been a member of both organisations. I jumped ship to the SP because of the way the SWP use fronts. The SP/Militant is a whole different kettle of fish.

Anyway we're drifting off topic here. Maybe these couple of posts could be moved to the Socialism thread

[WeAreRovers]

Anyway we're drifting off topic here. Maybe these couple of posts could be moved to the Socialism thread

Bring it on.

KOH

[Dr.Nightdub]

They invented the Anti Nazi league purely as a recruiting tool.

Jesus, WAR, that's some distortion of history. At least give them credit for a genuine loathing for fascism, the NF, BNP and all who sail in her and a genuine desire to stop the scum in their tracks. There's easier ways of recruiting new members than ending up like Blair Peach. Tsk, tsk, tsk.

You can't compare SWP's use of fronts and our involvement in fronts.

Hair-splitting differentiation between "use of" and "involvement in" there, BP.

Having once become a swimmie through a "front",(I joined the first No To War In The Gulf Campaign as an unaffiliated malcontent and one thing led to another) I kinda understand the theory here. If I remember right, it all goes back to Trotsky and the whole discussion around popular fronts versus united fronts in the 30s.

Unfortunately, "front" carries all sorts of pejorative baggage whereas "alliance" is what you're really dealing with. The critical thing is the terms on which the alliance is formed. "Front" implies hiding what your politics are about and to be honest, that's not something of which I'd ever accuse either the Swimmies or the Millies.

It makes sense from a point of view of broadening the party's reach, but also in terms of providing a determined socialist approach to tackling whatever issue is at hand. Again, having seen a few of these in action, I'd say both parties are pretty upfront about what they stand for.

Having resumed my unaffiliated malcontent status a number of years ago, I'd say the only real difference in approach is that the Millies tend to be a bit more restrained in terms of the number of campaigns / alliances / fronts they initiate, whereas the Swimmies go at it hell for leather.

I s'pose that stems from the respective parties' short-term goals: the Millies want to extend their electoral presence (and don't get me wrong, I think Joe Higgins ****es over any TD currently sitting and probably way out-passes Michael D when he cared or Tony Gregory when he was just starting out).

The Swimmies have - or had in the early 90s - a mania for building the party (and also a mania for parties generally!). It made sense at the time of the pre-Tiger downturn, cos there was a genuine urgency in terms of it needing to be done, now I'm not so sure. From talking to people who are still members, I think their emphasis has gone back towards convincing people about their ideas rather than action, action, action. I could be wrong though.

It all certainly made a poster-boy out of RBB though!

[rebs23]

[QUOTE=Dr.Nightdub;584527]Jesus, WAR, that's some distortion of history. At least give them credit for a genuine loathing for fascism, the NF, BNP and all who sail in her and a genuine desire to stop the scum in their tracks. There's easier ways of recruiting new members than ending up like Blair Peach. Tsk, tsk, tsk.

The Anti Nazi League were the most baltant recruiting tool for the SWP ever. Witnessed them in action on numerous occasions in London in the late 80's and early 90's and to say they deserve any credit for fighting fascism is a complete distortion. As for their genuine loathing for fascism, I'd say it was more a love for recruitring students than a loathing for fascism that motivated them.
In fairness whatever else you say about Red Action and Class War they were the only two groups that were willing to take on the NF/BNP when it mattered most eg the Battle of Waterloo.