We do NOT have a good squad

**gustavo** · 18/10/2006, 4:11 PM

Originally Posted by youngirish

Given was in the Premiership team of the season last year ahead of the likes of Cech and Van De Sar and is a better keeper than both no matter what the s**te tabloid media claims. If Given had Chelsea's defence in front of him he'd never concede. He is miles better than Lehman btw who is dodgy as f**k.

Of the current team Carr, Finnan, Duff and Given have all been in the Premiership select 11 in the last few seasons so we should really be doing better than NI, Wales and Scotland.

Do you really really believe those statements?

**youngirish** · 18/10/2006, 4:17 PM

Originally Posted by gustavo

Do you really really believe those statements?

Yes I do believe he's better than Lehman and so do the professional players in the Premiership judging from the team of the season last year. Are you one of these heads that believes just because he's playing for a better team he must be a better player? What do you base that on? A few good games in the Champions League last season? How long have you been watching football? He was terrible for Arsenal in previous seasons. Wenger dropped him on numerous occasions and was trying to get rid of him at one point. How quickly people forget.

**NeilMcD** · 18/10/2006, 4:22 PM

Yeah but youngirish you did say if he was playing behind the Chelsea defence that he would never condede which is a foolish statement.

**Billsthoughts** · 18/10/2006, 4:23 PM

Originally Posted by youngirish

Are you one of these heads that believes just because he's playing for a better team he must be a better player? What do you base that on? .

Well taking into account the ambition of the better club you would think they would be looking for the best goalkeeper on offer? and taking into account the ambition of the player you would think he would want to play at the highest level available to him?
So that is what I would base it on.
Also you could use the exact same statement bout Lehman being dropped and apply it to Given.
I do however agree with you that if Given had the chelsea defence in front of him he would never concede a goal.

**John83** · 18/10/2006, 4:24 PM

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

Yeah but youngirish you did say if he was playing behind the Chelsea defence that he would never condede which is a foolish statement.

Or an exaggeration for effect.

**youngirish** · 18/10/2006, 4:37 PM

Originally Posted by Billsthoughts

Well taking into account the ambition of the better club you would think they would be looking for the best goalkeeper on offer? and taking into account the ambition of the player you would think he would want to play at the highest level available to him?

Yeah so Van De Sar was pure s**te when he was playing for Fulham but now he's brilliant because he plays for United? Tim Howard and Fabien Barthez were brilliant also were they when playing for United? Much better than Given.

I hate that British media bulls**t attitude that the better clubs have all the best players in every position. Rubbish. All their players played for poorer clubs at some earlier stage in their careers anyway. And many will be playing for poorer clubs in the not too distant future again. If all their players were better in every position they would never be beaten by the lesser clubs. The best clubs usually have more world class players than the lesser clubs (who still often might have one or two) and a number that are no better and sometimes worse than what's available to the rest (JOS being a perfect example).

Originally Posted by Billsthoughts

Also you could use the exact same statement bout Lehman being dropped and apply it to Given.

No you couldn't. When are we talking about exactly? About 5 years ago?

Originally Posted by John83

Or an exaggeration for effect.

Yeah I thought that was obvious. Some people on this site are overly pedantic.

It is no more foolish however than the Lehman is better than Given statement when Given has been voted the best keeper in the Premiership twice while Lehman wasn't even getting his game regularly for Arsenal up until last season.

**cavan_fan** · 18/10/2006, 7:51 PM

I think the original point here was that our squad was not so good that we should be surprised we dont qualify.

In terms of qualityof footbal I think the only team that have a significantly better quality of player in Europe are:

Italy
France
Germany
Holland
Spain
England
Portugal
Czech Republic(?)

Now you could argue our relative squad strength against:

Belgium, Poland, Croatia, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Switzerland, Serbia, Ukraine, Slovakia, Russia, Greece, Turkey, Israel.

That means we have a squad somewhere between the 9th and 23rd best in Europe. Thats a team which should have a good chance of qualifying.

What we are missing is

An onfield leader
A tactical plan
Coaching
Commitment

So I dont agree we have poor players, I think we have a very poor team.

**Billsthoughts** · 18/10/2006, 10:13 PM

if given is so great how come no big club has ever come in for him? thats the point I am making.
and I dont think there was ever a doubt over Van De Saars (formerly of juve and Ajax and WC and Euro Semi Finalists Holland) class. The Given Lehman comparison still stands. your on the internet look it up

And Tim Howard was given a chance at united, found wanting and then gotten rid of. Barthez won a WC and a European Cup and has a runners up medal from the last WC. Shay Given has won what exactly?

**eirebhoy** · 18/10/2006, 11:38 PM

Originally Posted by gustavo

Do you really really believe those statements?

I think Lehmann's a terribly overrated keeper. He makes more mistakes in a season than Given has made in his career.

**an_ceannaire** · 19/10/2006, 9:16 AM

Are u having a laugh! you put us level with Sweden!! Oh lads, the naievety and sheer stupidity of some in this country is quite sad really. Sweden are on a different planet to us. Our level is Wales, Norn Iron, Cyprus, Belguim etc etc.....Portugal Sweden Denmark are way ahead of us now.

**tetsujin1979** · 19/10/2006, 9:26 AM

Originally Posted by an_ceannaire

Are u having a laugh! you put us level with Sweden!! Oh lads, the naievety and sheer stupidity of some in this country is quite sad really. Sweden are on a different planet to us. Our level is Wales, Norn Iron, Cyprus, Belguim etc etc.....Portugal Sweden Denmark are way ahead of us now.

We beat Sweden 3-0 seven months ago.

**an_ceannaire** · 19/10/2006, 9:28 AM

it was a bloody friendly!!! We are the ONLY country in the world to take them serisously! If we were to play Sweden in a qualifier tomorrow i dread to think what would happen

**Stuttgart88** · 19/10/2006, 9:32 AM

I don't care how Given stacks up against any other keepers on club form or which club he plays for.

I would not swap him for any other keeper in the world for Ireland. Not one.

**galwayhoop** · 19/10/2006, 9:36 AM

Originally Posted by youngirish

we should really be doing better than NI, Wales and Scotland.

why exactly?

yes we should do better than northern ireland. possibly even wales.

but why should we expect to do better than scotland? they seem to be coming back for a horrnedous 15 years or so but prior to this they had a pedigree as one of european football powerhouses who qualified consistently for major tournaments (granted they were useless at them but they usually were there). they have a larger population (not by much granted), a fully professional league where teams qualify for the CL group stages every year and their sports people only really compete in 2 sports (soccer and rugby).

Just because we've been better than them for the last decade does not mean we should always be better than them.

**Stuttgart88** · 19/10/2006, 9:36 AM

Originally Posted by Billsthoughts

and I dont think there was ever a doubt over Van De Saars (formerly of juve and Ajax and WC and Euro Semi Finalists Holland) class.

Personally I think there was. At least I doubted him anyway! I don't think he covered himself in glory at Juve at all, and playing for Juve in itself doesn't guarantee your class.

He was quite error prone at times over the years, but as he's aged he's got better. He's a good example opf a keeper peaking in his 30s.

**samabu92** · 19/10/2006, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I don't care how Given stacks up against any other keepers on club form or which club he plays for.

I would not swap him for any other keeper in the world for Ireland. Not one.

100% agree. The arsenal fans I know would swap Lehmann for Given any day.

**tetsujin1979** · 19/10/2006, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by an_ceannaire

it was a bloody friendly!!! We are the ONLY country in the world to take them serisously! If we were to play Sweden in a qualifier tomorrow i dread to think what would happen

Sweden took it seriously enough, 2 of the defenders that played that day got dropped from their world cup squad

**RogerMilla** · 19/10/2006, 11:03 AM

i agree fully with cavan fans posting , we certainly have the players, i don't see us qualifying for the next two tournaments and that is an absolute scandal given the talent available to us.

**an_ceannaire** · 19/10/2006, 11:13 AM

Will u please tell me who these "players" are
newcastles goalie, a man city defender, a liverpool full back, a newcastle winger and a spurs some time striker is it???
Ya....class!!!!
who else??????