Bohs points deduction

**shelbourne1904** · 11/10/2006, 10:15 AM

Can anyone clarify for me.
Bohs lost the points because Shels appealed the match because Bohs played a suspended player.If so did Shels get the points??

**Peadar** · 11/10/2006, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by shelbourne1904

If so did Shels get the points??

No.
You lost more points by the implosion of Dublin City FC though.

**bohs til i die** · 11/10/2006, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by shelbourne1904

Can anyone clarify for me.
Bohs lost the points because Shels appealed the match because Bohs played a suspended player.If so did Shels get the points??

Bhs lost the 3 points regardless of whether Shels appealed or not.

Shels are appealing because they want either a replay or the 3 points to be just given to them anyway.

**shelbourne1904** · 11/10/2006, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by bohs til i die

Bhs lost the 3 points regardless of whether Shels appealed or not.

Shels are appealing because they want either a replay or the 3 points to be just given to them anyway.

Ok so was it the case that A)the League spotted the infringement and deducted Bohs or B) Shels spotted the infringement and appealed the result??

If B) surely Shels should get the points.

This is not a case of just looking for the points Im just a bit baffled at the outcome??

**Dodge** · 11/10/2006, 10:43 AM

Shels had no business appealing anything. It doesn't matter who noticed the mistake. Bohs made it and were docked points, who it was against or the result of it are immaterial.

**bohs til i die** · 11/10/2006, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by shelbourne1904

Ok so was it the case that A)the League spotted the infringement and deducted Bohs or B) Shels spotted the infringement and appealed the result??

If B) surely Shels should get the points.

This is not a case of just looking for the points Im just a bit baffled at the outcome??

The 3 point deduction had nothing to do with Shels appeal.

Shels are appealing for a replay or them to be given the 3 points as they lost a game to a team with an ineligible player.

**BohsPartisan** · 11/10/2006, 10:51 AM

Shels are looking for the rules to be thrown out the window to suit them. If you remember the Marney affair, they weren't looking for Pats' opponants to be given the points or for the games to replayed, they just wanted the points deducted. Now that that doesn't suit them in this case, they want the points or a replay. The rules mean nothing to Ollie Byrne. He's an embarrasment to Irish football.

**bigmac** · 11/10/2006, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by shelbourne1904

Ok so was it the case that A)the League spotted the infringement and deducted Bohs or B) Shels spotted the infringement and appealed the result??

If B) surely Shels should get the points.

This is not a case of just looking for the points Im just a bit baffled at the outcome??

Not really, in effect that's like saying somebody who brings tax evasion to the attention of the revenue should be able to collect any fines subsequently imposed by the revenue.
It is the responsibility of the league to enforce their own rules - whether or not the infringement was brought to their attention by a third party. While Shelbourne can argue that they were penalised by Bohs' playing of an ineligible player, precedent (mainly from the 01/02 season) would seem to rule out any chance of a replay or Shelbourne being awarded the points.

When St. Pats were stripped of 15 points, the games involving the ineligible player were not replayed. Shelbourne did not object in this instance, despite the fact that this included a game with Shelbourne (along with games against Galway, Derry, UCD and Cork). One can suggest that a complaint was not forthcoming due to the fact that Pats had actually only earned 8 points from these games, whereas they were stripped of 15. Also, the game with Shels ended in a draw (1-1) so were all the games to be replayed, Pats would have had a chance to retake the lead at the top of the league.
In that situation, Derry City ended up 2 points behind Pats and the InterToto Cup spot, despite losing to them when they fielded an ineligible player. Being awarded the points they had dropped would have moved them into the European spot. No appeal was initiated in this case and the points deduction rightly stood.
Ollie's claim that this system can be abused could only be correct if a team was willing to sacrifice 3 points merely for the chance of denying another team those points. The term cutting off your nose to spite your face seems apt, and I can think of very few people who would countenance such a tactic.

**shelbourne1904** · 18/10/2006, 2:55 PM

Does anyone know what the newly approved rules ,approved at the almagamation of the league and the FAI,say on this matter??
It will be interesting because these rules were supposed to clear up all this messing for once and for all irrespective of precedent prior to these new rules???

**Dodge** · 18/10/2006, 3:10 PM

What messing? Bohs played a suspended player and were docked 3 points. Standard procdure in most leagues in the world. Let it go man...

**holidaysong** · 18/10/2006, 3:33 PM

Shels shouldn't get the points but if they do then we will also have to get the points for the game against Rovers when they played their suspended player.

**SligoBrewer** · 18/10/2006, 3:57 PM

Originally Posted by shelbourne1904

Does anyone know what the newly approved rules ,approved at the almagamation of the league and the FAI,say on this matter??
It will be interesting because these rules were supposed to clear up all this messing for once and for all irrespective of precedent prior to these new rules???

no, the rule ' if shels whinge, they get' hasn't been brought in officially yet

**Réiteoir** · 18/10/2006, 6:07 PM

Originally Posted by shelbourne1904

Does anyone know what the newly approved rules ,approved at the almagamation of the league and the FAI,say on this matter??
It will be interesting because these rules were supposed to clear up all this messing for once and for all irrespective of precedent prior to these new rules???

When St. Pats were stripped of 15 points, the games involving the ineligible player were not replayed. Shelbourne did not object in this instance, despite the fact that this included a game with Shelbourne (along with games against Galway, Derry, UCD and Cork). One can suggest that a complaint was not forthcoming due to the fact that Pats had actually only earned 8 points from these games, whereas they were stripped of 15. Also, the game with Shels ended in a draw (1-1) so were all the games to be replayed, Pats would have had a chance to retake the lead at the top of the league.

Stop whinging - you're not getting anything

**Gareth** · 18/10/2006, 6:26 PM

Not that I am really interested in Court battles, but Reiltoir, that was for an unregistered player, this is a suspended player. Different sitaution, maybe different rule? Just to point out your comparing differing things.

**stickyjoe** · 18/10/2006, 8:48 PM

This is another example of the classic joke that are the rules of the eircom league. When was the last time they were updated?

according to UEFA for who the league falls under its jurisdiction a team that plays a suspended player automatically loses the game 3-0 one obvious example been when ireland played liam miller when he was suspended against albania back in 2003 and we were stripped of the victory and albania were awarded a 3-0 win.

**Aaron** · 18/10/2006, 8:59 PM

Everyone knows wot Ollie Byrne is like. I dont know how shels can put up
with someone embarrassing their club like that. I think Shels reputation wud
be totally different had Ollie Byrne not been there. Even some Shels fans are
fed up with the whole goin to court to win the league malarky. Shels need
the league desperately this season to keep the coffers goin for a while. If
Shels dont win the league i think we'll seea mass exodus from tolka in
January. Shels shudnt get the points, simple as.

Before anyone brings up the derry thing, that was all sorted and our solicitor showed the league committee up to be amateur. They didnt notify us, tried to lie about it, got found out and was quickly put to bed and forgot about. I have said before, if Shels win the league without the courts or gettin points back, fair enuff, they deserve it, but if Ollie gets his way, Irish football will be a total and utter embarrassment!!

**dcfc_1928** · 18/10/2006, 9:29 PM

You can't compare rules surrounding a qualification group for a UEFA competition, with those for League competitions.

However if you want to give examples, I can also give one:

2004/05 - Welsh Premier League

Afan Lido defeated Airbus 4-0 (11th March 2005).

Afan Lido were later found to have fielded a suspended player. Afan Lido deducted three points and Airbus were NOT awarded them. This was in a UEFA recognised League.

As a precedent, that is about as relevant as the Liam Miller example.

**Dr.Nightdub** · 18/10/2006, 9:52 PM

There's also a difference in that the Ireland-Albania game was in a competition administered directly by UEFA. All national leagues are administered by the local associations. OK, so we'd all be better off being administered by UEFA, as they know what they're doing, but the two situations are not directly comparable - one is UEFA rules, one is LofI rules. But then of course, with Ollie, it's more a case of Queensbury rules.