Was Kerr a relative success?

[wws]

Yes he did alright with limited resources and should of been given more time , people seem to think that because we have premiership players we should be doing great . I think the real problem is that ignoring the hype from Sky Sports/The Times/Irish Independent/Evening Herald and the Sun whom Rubert Murdoch has a vested interest in, the premiership is a dreadful league in recent years and the standard and technique is simply not good enough most teams play either a counter attacking game or long ball game , even England who appartenty have the best team in the world again are struggling with a team full of Sky Gladiators.I think if we are ever to be a force again more of our players need to play outside of the premiership and we should employ a European coach.

endorsed and I'd also add that back in the good ol days the Ireland squad had a high proportion of players playing for Manchester United, Liverpool and Arsenal - these were the powerhouses of English football at that time both in the old First Division and in the Cup - they were playing for the standard bearer teams.

We now have just two players at modern day standard bearers of Man United/Chelsea/Liverpool/Arsenal - these are the only English teams that are on a par with the best in europe in terms of professionalism and out and out quality.

and we've just Finnan and O Shea among their ranks

the career trajectories of Duff and Keane illustrate teh scale of teh problem - given that squad apologists rate them as our "world class" stars. Sadly they are journeymen

[galwayhoop]

endorsed and I'd also add that back in the good ol days the Ireland squad had a high proportion of players playing for Manchester United, Liverpool and Arsenal - these were the powerhouses of English football at that time both in the old First Division and in the Cup - they were playing for the standard bearer teams.

We now have just two players at modern day standard bearers of Man United/Chelsea/Liverpool/Arsenal - these are the only English teams that are on a par with the best in europe in terms of professionalism and out and out quality.

and we've just Finnan and O Shea among their ranks

the career trajectories of Duff and Keane illustrate teh scale of teh problem - given that squad apologists rate them as our "world class" stars. Sadly they are journeymen

correct, correct and correct. when people spout on avbout 11 premiership players in the team .... etc etc it is poppycock. indeed when charlton took over he had european cup winners in the ranks, combined with players from man u, arsenal etc.. players who had a winning mentality and were used of performing for top teams at the top level. we may have premiership players now but in the main there from spurs, newcastle, sheff utd, blackburn, reading ... etc. IMO these teams are little if any better than the teams in the Greek, Turkish, French leagues. if we had a team made up of players from the top 4 teams it would be different but who on our team would even get into a premiership 11 (none). or even a premiership 22 (possibly given but prob van de sar would pip him there). if we cant get onto a premiership 22 then have a stab at a european top 50 or even a world top 50 players!

possibly has something to do with our ranking.

[cavan_fan]

correct, correct and correct. when people spout on avbout 11 premiership players in the team .... etc etc it is poppycock. indeed when charlton took over he had european cup winners in the ranks, combined with players from man u, arsenal etc.. players who had a winning mentality and were used of performing for top teams at the top level. we may have premiership players now but in the main there from spurs, newcastle, sheff utd, blackburn, reading ... etc. IMO these teams are little if any better than the teams in the Greek, Turkish, French leagues. if we had a team made up of players from the top 4 teams it would be different but who on our team would even get into a premiership 11 (none). or even a premiership 22 (possibly given but prob van de sar would pip him there). if we cant get onto a premiership 22 then have a stab at a european top 50 or even a world top 50 players!

possibly has something to do with our ranking.

How many Swedish players (including those playing in all countries) would get in a Premiership 11 or a Premiership 22:

Maybe Ljungberg though I wouldnt place him above Duff - they seem to qualify OK.

[galwayhoop]

man for man the swedes are much better than us. and also have a massive physical advantage over us - something we used to be able to use to our advantage against superior opposition.

i'm not saying we will never qualify for tournaments again just that it is not exclusively down to the manager.

how do you motivate a person who is a millionaire by the age of 20, lives life like a pop star, has an agent do everything for him and has no natural or visable afinity with his country only in name?

[galwayhoop]

and their entire squad does not play in england and they have a strong domestic league - they do not rely on the premiership.

[OwlsFan]

I think the real problem is that ignoring the hype from Sky Sports/The Times/Irish Independent/Evening Herald and the Sun whom Rubert Murdoch has a vested interest in, the premiership is a dreadful league in recent years and the standard and technique is simply not good enough most teams play either a counter attacking game or long ball game , even England who appartenty have the best team in the world again are struggling with a team full of Sky Gladiators.I think if we are ever to be a force again more of our players need to play outside of the premiership and we should employ a European coach.

If the Premiership is so crap, how come a crap Premiership side like Liverpool won the Champions League and Arsenal got to the Final last year?

[wws]

If the Premiership is so crap, how come a crap Premiership side like Liverpool won the Champions League and Arsenal got to the Final last year?

his point being how representative of the premiership are those two teams?

I'd say there is a chasm between the big four and the rest (unfortunately the bulk of Irelands players play for "the rest" - or....lower!

[cavan_fan]

man for man the swedes are much better than us. and also have a massive physical advantage over us - something we used to be able to use to our advantage against superior opposition.

i'm not saying we will never qualify for tournaments again just that it is not exclusively down to the manager.

how do you motivate a person who is a millionaire by the age of 20, lives life like a pop star, has an agent do everything for him and has no natural or visable afinity with his country only in name?

Agree that we dont seem to be as physically strong as we used/should be. One of the reasons why I as so happy to see Carlsey back. Also this is the main thing I have against O'Shea for a big lad he doesnt impose himself. Without digressing too much would rather he played for Reading where he'd need to be a key player, not Man U where he can drift in and out.

But on the Sweden v Ireland thing are they really man for man better. Their lineup for their last match was

1 Rami Shaaban
2 Mikael Nilsson
3 Mikael Antonsson
4 Petter Hansson
5 Erik Edman
7 Niclas Alexandersson
6 Daniel Andersson
8 Kim Källström
9 Christian Wilhelmsson
10 Marcus Allbäck
11 Johan Elmander

Sorry for not knowing all their players but of the ones we all know
Edman didnt set the world alight at Spurs.
Alexandersson - any better than Carsley?
Kallstrom - Appears to be skiful (though not as good as in Championshipp manager) but not sure whether he or Duff would ne my choice.
Wilhelmsson - disappointed me a bit in the World Cup.
Allback - Much as I'd like to have a stroing attacker he's no better anr probably not as good as Robbie.

I know they were missing their star player (Ibrahimovic) but if we're talking petulant lazy buggers then he makes O'Shea appear interested.

I'm not denying that Sweden are a far better team than us at present but that just shows what we are missing but having a joke manager who is not motivating the players. It also shows that we shoudl take advantage of a slightly agin team as the next generation may not be as good.

[Stuttgart88]

FYI Kallstrom is an athletic & tough central midfieder as far as I know. In no way comparable to Duff. He's exactly the type of player we need.

I was at Sweden vs England in Cologne and few of their players stood out as being great talents. Teddy Lucic, once of Leeds, played really well against Rooney, but what did Lucic ever do in English football?

But, it goes back to the point I've made about frequently in the last fortnight, they had the following:

Physical presence
Moral character / leadership
Balance
Solid core to the team
Good management

Sweden are my benchmark for what Ireland can realistically expect. Play well consistently in qualification, consistently win tricky away games, qualify regularly and compete well once they get there. Sweden for absolutely sure do not buy into our jaded "win at home, draw away" ethic. They engage teams in a game home & away and they deserve their status.

[NeilMcD]

Great post Stuttgart. The four heading you have above are things which should be standard for any Irish team but are sadly missing. We cannot expect top class players but we can expect the four or five headings you have above.

[wws]

FYI Kallstrom is an athletic & tough central midfieder as far as I know. In no way comparable to Duff. He's exactly the type of player we need.

I was at Sweden vs England in Cologne and few of their players stood out. Teddy Lucic, once of Leeds, played really well against Rooney.

But, it goes back to the point I've made about frequently in the last fortnight, they had the following:

Physical presence
Moral character / leadership
Balance
Solid core to the team
Good management

Sweden are my benchmark for what Ireland can realistically expect. Play well consistently in qualification, consistently win tricky away games, qualify regularly and compete well once they get there. Sweden for absolutely sure do not buy into our jaded "win at home, draw away" ethic. They engage teams in a game home & away and they deserve their status.

will you ditch this line ". Sweden for absolutely sure do not buy into our jaded "win at home, draw away" ethic. "

no ireland tean sets out to do this (deliberately draw) - they simply dont win away as they are not good enough to impose themselves and defend the gaps - as said above - that sort of out and out quality isnt there

[geysir]

Kallstrom hits a mean free kick from long distance.

Is Kerr a relative success, relative to what or who?
What's the barometer of success that we can say whether an Irish manager is successful or not? Without that piece of information the thread Q is rendered void.
If a measure of success was having a DVD released of the golden games on the way to qualification or a documenting of the great victories then I'm still waiting for that one.

[Billsthoughts]

Tom Humpreys!! Quoting a GAA fan who loves to have a slap at soccer at every opportunity isn't the best evidence. Like Humpreys would know what happens at Walsall reserve training sessions

maybe this is the case in the paranoid irony free zone you like to call a brain nut not in reality. lots of people like the GAA and football. and like anyone would know what happens at the walsall reserve training sessions. ( ......well maybe eirebhoy ....)

[dublinred]

If the Premiership is so crap, how come a crap Premiership side like Liverpool won the Champions League and Arsenal got to the Final last year?

1) Liverpool = Miracle - they do happen , Lourdes , Knock , Fatima , Istanbul etc.
2) Arsenal = Wenger & Thiery Henry

[OwlsFan]

maybe this is the case in the paranoid irony free zone you like to call a brain nut not in reality. lots of people like the GAA and football. and like anyone would know what happens at the walsall reserve training sessions. ( ......well maybe eirebhoy ....)

There is a difference between liking both and liking one and disliking the other. He did an article on 200 reasons why the GAA is better than soccer. Hardly the actions of someone who likes both soccer and the GAA Tom Humpreys is undoubtedly a very good writer but I view anything he says about soccer with suspicion and certainly won't put much credence on an off the cuff remark about what happens at a Walsall reserve training session.

As for the comments on the Premiership, there is probably a chasm between the Big 4 in most countries and the rest. In Spain, for example, how often do teams outside of Barca and Real M win the league. Not very often I suspect. The attack on the Premiership doesn't stand up. It's a fasionable thing to say (I hear Drunkphy saying it often enough) but it's a strong league which attracts many of the best players in the world.

[Noelys Guitar]

correct, correct and correct. when people spout on avbout 11 premiership players in the team .... etc etc it is poppycock. indeed when charlton took over he had european cup winners in the ranks, combined with players from man u, arsenal etc.. players who had a winning mentality and were used of performing for top teams at the top level. we may have premiership players now but in the main there from spurs, newcastle, sheff utd, blackburn, reading ... etc. IMO these teams are little if any better than the teams in the Greek, Turkish, French leagues. if we had a team made up of players from the top 4 teams it would be different but who on our team would even get into a premiership 11 (none). or even a premiership 22 (possibly given but prob van de sar would pip him there). if we cant get onto a premiership 22 then have a stab at a european top 50 or even a world top 50 players!

possibly has something to do with our ranking.

Ignoring the fact that a team with Brady, O'Leary, Stapleton, Lawernson, Robinson, Moran, Whelan, Sheedy and Hughton did not qualify. Stapo's comments in 1985 that we were just not good enough and would probably never qualify for a major championship! But teams which included Gary Breen, Chris Morris, Mick McCarthy and Packie Bonner could get us to the Euros and world cups.

[galwayhoop]

Ignoring the fact that a team with Brady, O'Leary, Stapleton, Lawernson, Robinson, Moran, Whelan, Sheedy and Hughton did not qualify. Stapo's comments in 1985 that we were just not good enough and would probably never qualify for a major championship! But teams which included Gary Breen, Chris Morris, Mick McCarthy and Packie Bonner could get us to the Euros and world cups.

we were extremely unlucky not to qualify for WC86. qualified for euro88, WC90, should of qualified for euro92, qualified for WC94 with a team which stemed from them players (those you listed at the start of your post) in the earlier tournaments and was then added to by the likes of houghton, aldridge, mcgrath, sheridan....etc.

i think you are being very selective here as the teams you say qualified us for the world cups and euros also included keane and the players above. BTW i don't remember gary breen playing at euro 88. he must of been young!!!!!!

the teams including the 'modern day' irish players only got us to WC2002 and failed to get us to euro00, euro04, WC06 and looks likely that we'll fail to get to euro08.

your post is a little off mark IMO

[Noelys Guitar]

Unlucky to qualify for 86? How? If you read my post you would see I wasn't being specific and stated teams for Euro's and WC's. Breen in 2002 WC. And it was unlucky to qualify for 82 not 86. None of the players I mentioned at the beginning of my post made it to WC94???McGrath who I had left out did. But Eoinie wasn't playing him in competitive games until the last one against Denmark in 85. So didn't include him.

[galwayhoop]

None of the players I mentioned at the beginning of my post made it to WC94.

they played in the others. your twisting your facts here to make an illigimate point. those players, and the ones who i listed who followed on from them, qualified for more tournaments than they missed out on. we have only qualified for 1 tournament in the last 7 (if you assume we dont get to euro08).

[bennocelt]

remind me what the swiss and ukraine game was again? oh yeah a world cup qtr final. Will ya giver over fer fecks sake. Its as plain as the nose on your face that our players are not in that bracket. Hiddink and O Neill could manage them now and they'd still be a poor quality panel

in the worst world cup since the 90's
international footy is dead easy
man just look at the rise of scotland and norn iron, same player resources but good management