Is there any eircom League player good enough

**cheifo** · 12/10/2006, 11:37 PM

Players from countries like Denmark, Norway &Sweden sometimes return to clubs in their native countries after failing to settle in England and yet do a job for their national team.

**ainsie** · 13/10/2006, 7:32 AM

I admire the EL players, week in week out they go out there with bad facilities, horrible weather, low pay , bad support, no glory except for the odd first or second round of euro action. I admire the hunger for the game and I do agree that that a team of EL players would have put up a better fight last saturday.
But hunger and fighting spirit do not win the day. You have to have both skill and passion to win and play at the hightest level.
Whilst its great to be able to watch the EL teams in the Euro competitions its always an early exit because teams from Slovackia, France etc are just that much better than them. If an EL team were to play say Cardiff tomorrow and there was a gun at your head to bet your house on who would win, would you bet on Shelbourne???
I'll give you this there might be an exception or two and some undiscovered player waiting to burst on to the higher level , doyle for instance, but in general most EL players have found their level.

Someone mentioned that the league is higher that the national team, but lets compare apples to apples here, if thats your logic then the Irish womens team are rated as high as the men too...

Must go and look at thread I was asked to look at..

**ainsie** · 13/10/2006, 8:07 AM

ok I read about Stans insult to Eircom League. I agree maybe he did insult them. But I think the point is missed.There are a few players on the squad that should not be there and should not play i.e. Morrison and O brien and maybe an Eircom league player would have done better but the fact is they are better than what?? IMO they are both not good enough and just because one player is better than whats on offer does not mean that player is good enough to be on the team.
The fact of the matter is Stan did not use what he had correctly on Saturday , he has better players that whats on offer in the EL but refused to use them.

Given
Kenny
Finnan
Carr
Dunne
Mc Shane
St Ledger
O Shea
Harte
Kelly
Duff
Mcgeady
Reid A
Reid S
Mc Phail
Carsley
Douglas
Kilban
Doyle
Keane

Who do you drop for an EL Player. And lets not loyalty rule the brain. A bad game a lack of passion or playing out of place because of bad management does not make a bad player

**Billsthoughts** · 13/10/2006, 8:33 AM

I dunno bout outfield players but a goalkeeper should have been called up instead of henderson. he isnt playing regularly and thats important for a keeper. and it showed on wed.

**ainsie** · 13/10/2006, 8:44 AM

I agree on the keeper, but I believe that our first two choices are good enough. Kenny's display saturday was a result of the general performance and lack of communication and good management. It was the diplay by the defence as a whole that was the problem and Kenny was just a part of that.
He was hung out to dry too many times and except for that headed goal where he should have got something on it , it was not his fault.
There might also be a case for a forward but the same case could be made for Lee Trundle whos scores lots of goals in League 1 (except for the injuries this year). He wants to play for Ireland but has never proved him self at the top level. I know Morrison and Lee have not either but thats why I say there might be a case for a forward.

**adamcarr** · 14/10/2006, 1:21 PM

Originally Posted by ainsie

Given
Kenny
Henderson Mick Devine
Finnan
Carr
Dunne
Mc Shane
St Ledger Alan Bennett
O Shea Joe Gamble
Harte Danny Murphy
Kelly Owen Heary
Duff
Mcgeady
Reid A
Reid S
Mc Phail
Carsley
Douglas
Kilban
Doyle
Keane

Who do you drop for an EL Player. And lets not loyalty rule the brain. A bad game a lack of passion or playing out of place because of bad management does not make a bad player

There ya go!

**eirebhoy** · 14/10/2006, 2:29 PM

I'd have Harte over Murphy and O'Shea would be a star player in the EL. Other than that I couldn't argue too much but the chances of those players getting a game are slim.

**joema** · 14/10/2006, 2:56 PM

Originally Posted by czarner

So that's why you put the word 'Irishman' in bold when comparing Bennett to O'Brien. Livehead1 was spot on in identifying the little islander mindset typified by your posts in this thread as being the major turn-off of this forum. Why do you and others like you have so much difficulty in understanding the concept of having an attachment to more than one country? Just because you only have roots in one nation doesn't mean that those who don't have to conform to your all-or-nothing mentality. Not to mention the fact that footballers have to choose the country they play for at a relatively young age; I think if someone in a situation like this has difficulty choosing which side of their cultural and genetic inheritence to plump for it's more an indication of thoughtfulness than a mercenary nature.

I put it in bold because I dont see a player who represented England as being an Irishman, because O'Brien represented England I dont believe he cares about Ireland as much as some of the other players do

"Why do you and others like you have so much difficulty in understanding the concept of having an attachment to more than one country?"

Believe me I do understand the concept of having a connection to more than one country, I honestly do but I really am dissapointed by the fact that O'Brien played for England, its as simple as that, thats how I feel, end of story

"little islander mindset"

Have a look at my other posts and see if I have a "little islander mindset", this is just my opinion on this particular subject.

Also I dont think you understand what I mean by Irishman - and Irishman is not simply someone who was born and rared in Ireland it is someone who feels Irish - e.g Kevin Kilbane, Mick McCarthy, Chris Hughton... I dont regard Bennet as an Irishman simply becasue he was born here. In short I dont see O'Brien as being as Irish as the likes of Bennett or Kilbane

Originally Posted by eirebhoy

O'Brien was really highly rated as a youngster and was a regular in the Bradford team at the age of 17. After a couple of seasons in the premiership with Bradford Newcastle paid £2m for him. If he cared that much about England he would have accepted the 2nd call up to the U21s. If he was good enough to be 1st choice centre half for the England U21s at the age of 20 it's impossible to predict that he'd be a poor player now.

Fair enough, howver I still feel the same way towards O'Brien - if he really is a true Irishaman why did he represent England???

Originally Posted by rambler14

JOE GAMBLE FAILED TO HACK IT IN ENGLAND AND COULDN'T GET HIS GAME WITH BARNET

It would be handy if you knew what you were talking about, he was only at Barnet on loan and actually played very well for them. And so what if he "failed" in England? Roy Keane was told he was too small, Denis Bergkamp was rejected, Eric Cantona was deemed not good enough for Sheffield Wednesday ffs. Just becasue it didnt work out for him in England does not mean he is not good enough as these cases prove

**superfrank** · 15/10/2006, 11:11 AM

adamcarr, are you actually mad??

There is no way Danny Murphy is better then Ian Harte.

As for O'Shea, I heard, don't know if it's true, that he played in the eircom league when he was at Waterford. I believe your man said he was 15 at the time and Waterford were in the First but supposedly he did very well. If true, surely that's evidence that he would be a star in the el as eirebhoy suggested. Remember, I don't know if that was actually true.

**Soper** · 15/10/2006, 1:18 PM

Harte is rubbish defensively.Remember him getting skinned in the fa cup by then League 1 Cardiff, not to mention in the Premiersh!t.

**adamcarr** · 15/10/2006, 1:30 PM

Originally Posted by superfrank

adamcarr, are you actually mad??

There is no way Danny Murphy is better then Ian Harte.

Danny is a better player defensively than Harte and although Harte is good going forward Id still throw Danny ahead of him.

**ainsie** · 16/10/2006, 8:50 AM

Originally Posted by ainsie
Given
Kenny
Henderson Mick Devine
Finnan
Carr
Dunne
Mc Shane
St Ledger Alan Bennett
O Shea Joe Gamble
Harte Danny Murphy
Kelly Owen Heary
Duff
Mcgeady
Reid A
Reid S
Mc Phail
Carsley
Douglas
Kilban
Doyle
Keane

Its all about who you play against week in week out.
BTW I did not have Henderson in my post so adding Mick Devine is fine as on the rare occasion ( I hope) that we need 3rd choice, stick anyone in there.
St Ledger is constandly getting man of the match for his team and plays at a higher level than EL so I'd pick him.
I'm not a utd fan but O shea if he ever gets his concentration together will be a fine player and except for that one stupid switch off against the Chech's he had a very good game and showed what he can do and its better than what I have seen in the EL. I dont think ferguson is that bad a judge and dont think Gamble would get a regular start in EPL.
Harte plays in what is one of the top two leagues in the world IMO and what you learn there qualifies you slightly better for playing internationals than your weekly grind in the EL. Yes hes slow, but so was Stan when he played.
Kelly is young, he played a good game the other night, but then again all being fit hes third choice anyhow for now until he matures.

I dont know is the point? , that EL players could make up the training spots on the team . Maybe they have the skill, the passion, but to suddenly slot in a a higher level when week in week out your playing far lesser players except for the odd euro game , I dont think so. Maybe if they move to the EPL( and if there good enough for internationals they should be able to play there or at least the championship) they will get international games. But do you really think their playing in the EL for loyalty? Or would they like to treble their wages and move or maybe the people who decide these things have decided they are only superstars in their own League.

**Soper** · 16/10/2006, 11:12 AM

I wish Irish football fans had the loyalty that rugby fans have, in standing by players that stay here instead of ones that are playing abroad.It would be lovely if Fifa brought in a rule where a certain number of players in the national team had to be domestically based, maybe then people would care.

**tetsujin1979** · 16/10/2006, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by Soper

I wish Irish football fans had the loyalty that rugby fans have, in standing by players that stay here instead of ones that are playing abroad.It would be lovely if Fifa brought in a rule where a certain number of players in the national team had to be domestically based, maybe then people would care.

As has been pointed out before, I believe this would actually be a bad thing, players would be getting into the squad because they have to, not because they have proven they are worth their place

**Soper** · 16/10/2006, 11:57 AM

Yes, but it would also force the fai, and sponsors, to invest properly in domestic football

Also, younger players stuck in leagues like league 1 in england, might come 'home' and play at a better level if it meant they had more of a chance to play for their country.

**eirebhoy** · 16/10/2006, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by Soper

Harte is rubbish defensively.Remember him getting skinned in the fa cup by then League 1 Cardiff, not to mention in the Premiersh!t.

If I'm not mistaking Harte was voted into the premiership team of the season twice. He can't be that bad defensively.

**Soper** · 16/10/2006, 12:13 PM

It is the general view that he is defensively shocking, not just mine.

**eirebhoy** · 16/10/2006, 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by Soper

It is the general view that he is defensively shocking, not just mine.

Shocking? I think that's a bit ott. He's our only left back playing at the highest level and imo should be first choice. If Harte is defensively shocking then I'd love to know your view on O'Shea.

**Stuttgart88** · 16/10/2006, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by Soper

I wish Irish football fans had the loyalty that rugby fans have, in standing by players that stay here instead of ones that are playing abroad.

How on earth is this an issue about fans' loyalty? I don't think irish fans discriminate against someone like Geordan Murphy, for example, because he plays in England.

I think that rugby is a model we could look to copy as it'd be fantastic if we could keep our very best players at home & also by concentrating the talent into a smaller number of teams. But it's got nothing to do with fans' loyalty.

The rugby model is dependent on a degree of cross border competition, week-in week-out by the Magners league and more substantially by the Heineken Cup. Also, the financial difference between staying at home and playing for a provincial side or going to England is presumably not much of a factor. The pickings in Engish rugby are nowhere near as big as in football.

Also, the international rugby authorities have easily facilitated the thriving provincial teams by (a) allowing cross border competition and (b) allowing the provinces to enter what are essentially club competitions.

**Kingdom** · 16/10/2006, 1:46 PM

Originally Posted by superfrank

As for O'Shea, I heard, don't know if it's true, that he played in the eircom league when he was at Waterford. I believe your man said he was 15 at the time and Waterford were in the First but supposedly he did very well. If true, surely that's evidence that he would be a star in the el as eirebhoy suggested. Remember, I don't know if that was actually true.

I also heard that he was having relations with a well known former Pop Idoler who isn't a woman. If true, surely that's evidence as to why he's afraid to tackle and when he runs his hands are glued to his hips. Remember I don't know if thats actually true.