Attendances in the '60s and '70s

[dcfcsteve]

You played Cork City in the 1989 Cup final and i can assure you the crowd was 50/50 because i was there

Dundalk

You definitely brought more than Dundalk, but I can assure you the crowd was most definitely not 50-50 : in either 1989 game. At most 60:40 in our favour.

We had the stertch of open terracing behind one goal - you had the shed end behind the other. The terrace behind our nets was bigger than yours (excuse the childish pun..) We then had two-thirds of the long open stretch of terracing on one side - you had the other third. The main stand was mixed.

I can say this categorically, as I watched the 1989 Treble DVD last week

[dcfcsteve]

DCFC

I was at that cup final of 87, we were allocated school/shed end and 1/3 of side terracing. True Derry had massive support, maybe 14,000/6,000 in their favour

The same split in terracing that was used when we played Cork a year later. Both thoise clubs filled their allocation - but we had been allocated an extra 13% of the side terrace than Cork.

BohsPartizan - yes that was correct, 24,000 at last years final (20,000 cork and 4,000 drogs)

I think you're letting your anti-Drohs prejudice colour your judgement there Oriel ! I would confidentaly estimate 8-10,000 Drogs and was actually surprised by how numerous, colourful, and 'family' their support was. Were also quite a few neutrals there s well - myself included. Would say 15-16,000 Cork max.

[oriel]

Ah now come on dcfcsteve - as ricky jervais says in extras 'is he having a laugh'

answer yes - just a bit of fun, i know full well drogs had great support up that day, about 8,000 i`d say, i was actually very pleased to see them finally win a trophy after 42 years.

Good luck to them.

[Billy Lord]

FAO Calcio Jack: that attendance of 63 for Rovers-Athlone was on Grand National day 1977, and - yes - I was there, along with several Hoops who are still going. The fall-off in attendances back then was quite dramatic, but it wasn't because of live TV coverage of English football but as a result of a number of factors.
People's lives changed dramatically, dads were suddenly becoming more responsible, family life began in earnest, the Big Match was available on UTV/HTV, Rovers, Hibs and Waterford all went into a tailspin, the organisation of the LOI was pathetic. It all added up to a disaster.
But the real differnce was that people suddenly didn't turn up for big games, therefore the big games shrinked and, as a result, the core suppport evaporated as clubs ran out of cash.
Most fans were casual/part-timers who wanted to see a winning team or a key game. At Rovers during my childhood attendances fluctuated from 5-20,000. What happened was that only the diehards were left as everyone else took other options. Even during the four-in-a-row our attendances rarely topped 3,000.
We need to bring back that latent/casual support. The big question is: how?

[sonofstan]

We need to bring back that latent/casual support.

you want more latent casuals?!

[CollegeTillIDie]

The first soccer game ever televised by RTE was in 1962 it was an early season game, I think it might have been something like a Dublin City Cup Final, between Drumcondra and Shamrock Rovers. It was held in Tolka Park on a Sunday afternoon and kicked off I believe around 3:30. The gates shut at 2 :00 because Tolka was full. In those days of terracing Tolka held somewhere in the region of 21,000 people. Brief Footage of the above game has been shown on nostalgic programmes over the years I have seen clips from it at least three times in the past decade, oh and it finished 5-5.

I believe emigration may have had an effect. But by 1971 a new phenomenon had begun, returning emigrés began arriving here from England. The children were already indoctrinated in English football through possibly having begun school . Plus people were able through individual aerials, Communal aerials , and the advent of cable television to watch cross channel football a lot easier. The final nail in the coffin , was the widespread availability of the ITV highlights programme The Big Match, which was shown on Sunday Afternoons shortly after lunch. Right smack bang against what was the traditional kick off times for League of Ireland games. I was in primary school at that time.
In a class with 35 young fellas most of whom were football fanatics only 5 of us had ever been to a League Of Ireland game. At the time I averaged about 1 game a year, as I didn't have a particular team to support and I had to arrange to travel with other people as I was too young to be allowed go on my own( from age 10 to about 15 I went to one game per year).

It was only when I went to UCD as a student that I became a regular LOI attender and I supported the College from that point on. I have now seen various different UCD teams play more than 800 times over the years, that includes the reserves, the Universities League teams, and the Women's team.
I have seen the club win 3 Leinster Senior Cups, 1 F.A.I. Cup, 1 First Division Championship, Qualify for the InterToto Cup, 2 First Division Shield titles, and
2 Under 21 Championships and 1 League of Ireland B title.

I have seen the Women win 2 Universities League titles, Women's Intervarsities Cup, 4 Dublin Women's Soccer League Premier Division titles 3 WFAI Senior Cups .

[CollegeTillIDie]

I was luckier than many kids in that my teacher was a League of Ireland supporter and went to watch Waterford in their heyday , and indeed he still does support them when he can. Through the teacher we at least looked up results of League of Ireand teams. We used to enjoy it when Waterford got beaten by someone. But that didn't begin to happen very often till after we left the school in 1974.

Part of the problem should also be levelled at the clubs concerned. They put none of the fruits of the bigger attendances from the 1950's and 1960's into spectator facilities. And to be honest looking back on it now, many of the grounds in the 1970's were crumbling compared to today. Having said that, some of the results gained by Irish teams in Europe , particularly against English opposition , did a massive disservice to the perception of the game here. Finn Harps got hammered by Everton and Derby County on two seperate occasions in the mid 1970's. Not even the dramatically improved results gained by Dundalk later in the decade and in the early 1980's did much to improve things.

One interesting aside, I have noticed a strange parallel between the early 1980's and now. In the early 1980's Dundalk got some very respectable results in European football at a time when the Republic of Ireland failed to qualify at senior level for major tournaments. Now in the mid naughties (00's)
domestic teams results in European club competitions are again improving in inverse proportion to the fortunes of the the National team.

[CollegeTillIDie]

In the 1960's and 1970's Cork had two senior clubs in the League of Ireland.
Hibernians often had crowds of 20,000 in Flower Lodge and Celtic when they were going well could get up to 10,000 in Turner's cross. Now allowing for the fact that the games were on Sunday afternoons and that up to 10% could have been travelling support, that still means that there were 27,000 soccer fans in greater Cork at this time. Where have the other 20,000 disappeared to folks?

[CollegeTillIDie]

Derry City regularly had crowds in excess of 10,000 when they first entered the League of Ireland. Now they fill the ground with 3,000 or less. Again the question needs to be asked. Given that those 10,000 attendances were on Sunday afternoons and that up to 10% might have been visiting supporters, that still implies a loss of 6,000 supporters over the past two decades, which to be fair have not been totally unsuccessful in the history of the club.

[CollegeTillIDie]

I quote those two examples from the polar opposite ends of the country just to illustrate that the decline is not just confined to Dublin clubs.

[CollegeTillIDie]

Correction tawdy

1/ Cork Hibs played at FLOWER LODGE that season which is where the game took place

2/ And the attendance was nearer 25,000.

The same two sides played in the Cup Final and Hibs ran out winners by a Miah Dennehy hat-trick to Nil.

[CollegeTillIDie]

Well to illustrate the roller coaster ride in attendances which the same club can experience. I was at Lansdowne Road in May 1995 , for a friendly between UCD and Liverpool in front of 23,500. And by the same token seven years earlier in February 1988 I was at a First Division fixture between UCD and EMFA( now called Kilkenny City) when both sides were in the bottom half of that Division in front of less than 70.

[dcfcsteve]

Derry City regularly had crowds in excess of 10,000 when they first entered the League of Ireland. Now they fill the ground with 3,000 or less. Again the question needs to be asked. Given that those 10,000 attendances were on Sunday afternoons and that up to 10% might have been visiting supporters, that still implies a loss of 6,000 supporters over the past two decades, which to be fair have not been totally unsuccessful in the history of the club.

You can't treat the Derry example as similar to the others.

City benefitted/suffered from the classic 'bubble' effect. There was such a huge euphoria when the club came back into football. Huge crowds would turn out dfor even the most menigless of games. It was obviouis that that would never last once the tedium of the day-to-day, seaosn-to-season grind kicked-in

Howevver - unlike the Dublin teams, and on a parallel with probably only Cork and Sligo, theer is an entire generation in Derry where the vast majority of males have been to see an EL game. A very large number of those went just becauser it was the done thing, but a number of the others are likely to come back for the bigger/more exciting games - as we've found in our recent Euro ventures. There will always be a spectrum of support - from fanatics at one end, to 'never atends' at the other, and with everyone else at various stages in the middle. The issue therefore is not how to go from one extreme to the other, as that will never happen. Instead it's a question of how to shunt everyone a few steps along the spectrum so you get more people goining to more games more often.

[dcfcsteve]

Well to illustrate the roller coaster ride in attendances which the same club can experience. I was at Lansdowne Road in May 1995 , for a friendly between UCD and Liverpool in front of 23,500. And by the same token seven years earlier in February 1988 I was at a First Division fixture between UCD and EMFA( now called Kilkenny City) when both sides were in the bottom half of that Division in front of less than 70.

Not a relevant example at all. How many of the 1995 game were there to se Liverpool, rather than UCD....? Undoubtedly the overwhelming majority.

Therefore - it wouldn't have matter had you played Jesus Christ Allstars 7 years earlier - the differential in crowd wouldn't have been roughly the same.

If you want to illustrate a drop-off in crowds, compare EL teams versus EL teams over time. Appples with apples....

[dancinpants]

If you want to illustrate a drop-off in crowds, compare EL teams versus EL teams over time. Appples with apples....

minus 1 "p"

[pineapple stu]

Jayz CTID - five posts in a row?! Is that a record? Surely that could all have been run into one post!!

[dcfcsteve]

heres a photo of a record att for an irish club that will never be beaten
http://trueblues.zoomshare.com/album...2370/image.jpg

blues v man utd 1968 european cup att 56.000
first ever soccer match to be played at landsdown road.

beat that.

Never say never.

No reason to not expect that at some point in the future an Irish team playing in Europan group stages could attract a similar crowd against big opposition (Real Madrid ? Man U ?) as that match.

We're talking, in my view, within the next 5 years for an Irish team to get the luck of the draw needed to break into probably the UEFA Cup group stages, and then god know's how long after that for Irish teams to bne making the group stages every so often and drawing big sides.

Then the only question would be finding a stadium that could actually host 56,000+. It looks like it'll only ever be Croker in Ireland, so spin the time machine dial forward a bit more before they're letting major soccer games be played there as and when negotiated.

So no reason why we couldn't see a 56,000 domestic crowd again, though it'd be some way away in the distant future...

[geysir]

record att for an irish club that will never be beaten
blues v man utd 1968 european cup att 56.000
first ever soccer match to be played at landsdown road.
beat that.

Actually there was a good bit more than that. It was a sold out all ticket game. A steady stream of people climbed over the wall around the east side pitch and strolled passed the statuesque 4 or 5 gardai who were studiously observing the cloud patterns.