god i dont know, what with my avatar and allOriginally Posted by ciaraa
Yes
No
No.
We should study history and learn from it ...not celebrate it. Too much sh1t goes on on this island already because of peoples rose tinted view of some percieved glorious past or casting off of shackles.
" I wish to God that someone would be able to block out the voices in my head for five minutes, the voices that scream, over and over again: "Why do they come to me to die?"
god i dont know, what with my avatar and all
The Hunger Strikers were members of 2 organisations that were not only classified as illegal in The Republic, but which also actively committed illegal acts within The Republic - often against citizens of the Republic.
A host of members of those 2 organisations involved have been imprisoned in the Republic, right up to the Good Friday Agreement releases.
The organisations the Hunger Striker represented have killed members of the the legal and official civil protection/security forces in the Republic (e.g. the Gardai).
One of the Hunger Strikers was in prison at the time for an offense he had committed originally in the Republic (Michael Devine).
All were openly opposed to the existence and apparatus of the Republic, and the political movement that sprang out of the Hunger Strikes refused to sit in or recognise the democratically elected parliament of the Republic of Ireland.
It would therefore be nothing short of perverse for the Republic to officially honour these men. All were members of organisations that were not only illegal in the Republic at the time - but which are still illegal there to this very day !! All were opposed to the existence of the ROI, and were memebrs of organisations that activelty worked against the Republic and its representatives on occasion. Rightly or wrongly, all would also have been imprisoned in the Republic if they'd been tried for similar offences there (as indeed many of their colleagues were). How the hell could all that now be ignored and these men honoured ?
And if Irish Hunger strikers are to get honoured, why should it only be those 10 ? The 20h Century had at least 3 series of Republican hunger strikes. Why should only one be deemed worthy of official remembrance ?
Finally - the mists of time have obscured the fact that the Hunger Strikers themselves, as individuals, were not all in prison through acts that could be described as stereotypical of 'freedom fighters'. Three of them had been imprisoned for separate attacks on retail premises - including Thomas McElwee, who managed to kill a 26 year old female shopkeeper in his attack on a Balymena clothes store. A number were in for theft of weapons - including Mchael Devine, who not only had a petty criminal record from prior to his involvement in the INLA, but who's act of gun theft had actually occured in the Republic. Only 4 or 5 of the 10 could genuinely be considered to have been in prison for acts one would unambiguously associate with 'Freedom Fighters'.
Regardless of what their broader political purposes may have been, or the outcome they arguably attained, I see no reason or a modern, democratic, Western government to honour someone who, for example, burned a young woman to death in a clothes shop, all in the name of Irish Freedom....
Last edited by dcfcsteve; 17/10/2006 at 3:59 PM.
One other thought - how would any of us feel if the Scottish Parliament decided to commemorate people like Billy Wright, Jim Gray or Michael Stone (when he eventually dies/gets shot) for their efforts in working to protect the loyalist/protestant people of Ulster and uphold the Union in line with the wishes of the majority of its population.....?
Put things in a different light, does it.......?
I don't know enough about the details of each prisoners case & maybe some were genuine but does seem like their organisation used them as pawns against the British state.
I voted No as I think its time to move on & try not to repeat the mistakes of the past instead of glorifying it. No use saying the other crowd do it or don't do it as thats probably why in current state.
I am just old enough to remember the black flags and the high state of emotion and tension that was in the air at the time but while those men died for their beliefs history has moved forward and looking at the past is not the way to the future.
I dont see why the free state/ 26 counties or whatever would commemorate them. I know a few councils and the likes passed votes on it.
Commemorating the hunger strikes should be a personal decision and not some political point scoring.
Like when Bertie and McDowell had the military parade for 1916. It would mean alot more if they were genuine and not trying to win votes
Finn Harps Belfast Supporters
No part of the Troubles should be commemorated. The only thing that should be commemorated is a just and lasting peace in Ireland for everybody.
Never play leapfrog with a unicorn!!
same could be said for the easter rising and many other things though.
Finn Harps Belfast Supporters
I'm sure if it were possible, James Connolly would have been turning in his grave at the type of person who was commemorating the rising at easter.
TO TELL THE TRUTH IS REVOLUTIONARY
The ONLY foot.ie user with a type of logic named after them!
All of this has happened before. All of it will happen again.
Considering that the state battered supporters of the hunger strikers at the time and had pretty little compunction in doing so, it'd be an act of monumental hypocrisy for that same state to now turn round and commemorate the hunger strikers those people were supporting.
The most useful thing that could be done would be to educate people as to why the hunger strike happened in the first place - in fact, why the Troubles happened in the first place. From some of the comments in this thread, the degree of ignorance - as in simply not knowing the course of recent history - is staggering.
Revenge for 2002
very good post.
as for Hypocrisy, its dirty bertie and herr mcdowell we are talkin about here
Finn Harps Belfast Supporters
sure Bertie is a life long socialist
Finn Harps Belfast Supporters
i think he meant to say lifelong socialitesure Bertie is a life long socialist
I think DCFCSteve wrapped it up pretty tightly.
Curiously -dodgy painter and unrepentant psychopath Michael Stone has spoken of his admiration for the courage of "the ten".
On one level I can acknowledge that courage -but only to the same extent that I'd admire the courage of the 7/7 bus/tube bombers or the 9/11 hijackers.
" I wish to God that someone would be able to block out the voices in my head for five minutes, the voices that scream, over and over again: "Why do they come to me to die?"
I'm no fan of the 'ra but I think its unfair to compare them to islamic militant suicide bombers.
TO TELL THE TRUTH IS REVOLUTIONARY
The ONLY foot.ie user with a type of logic named after them!
All of this has happened before. All of it will happen again.
Why??
If anything those islamic fundamentalist suicide bombers are far more courageous than the I.R.A man who say, blew up the pub in Guildford for example
Fantastic post from the good Dr. Nightdub. Hats off etc......
Thats right, we will all go educate ourselves on the course of recent history
and we will become big RA heads.
You mean like the way the Easter uprising is celebrated, even though it faced widespread opposition at the time across the island, people in Dublin coming out to barrack, spit-at and abuse the prisoners when it ended etc etc ? Knowing the course of history indeed.
The Irish would happily turn someone from public enemy No 1 to national saint in the blink of an eye if they were seduced into doing so, and vice-versa. It's shocking that it took recent revelations for people to finally accept that Haughey was a crook, for example. As if a man of no independent means living in that level of wealth wasn't an obvious enough sign at the time...
Most people could do with education about the Hunger Strikes - but I suspect not in the way you're suggesting. They had feck all to do with 'the struggle' and the advancement of Irish freedom in themselves, and were just about trying to get POW status for Republican prisoners - the ability to wear civilian clothing, mingle freely in prison etc like a World War 2 camp. Which was never, ever going to happen in all seriousness. Most people don't know that that was what it was all about, and would probably be quietly disappointed that it was over something so officious and 'fringe' to the struggle.
Last edited by dcfcsteve; 23/10/2006 at 10:01 AM.
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