Stadium Updates (All Clubs)

Originally Posted by samhaydenjr

I don't think that's exorbitant, even for an LOI club, maybe 3-5% of gate receipts, especially considering the money put in by council to develop it. Although, in response to City's chairman's point about fluctuating attendances, perhaps it could be set at a percentage of gate receipts instead of a fixed amount.

Why should the council and ratepayers have to bear the financial brunt of any downturn in Derry City's performances and/or their inability to maximise attendances ?

1000 a game is ok for the first team but if the 19s 17s etc play there it will get expensive quuckly

Originally Posted by EatYerGreens

Why should the council and ratepayers have to bear the financial brunt of any downturn in Derry City's performances and/or their inability to maximise attendances ?

I'd argue though that the stadium essentially costs the council the same to rent out whether it's to a professional football club or bunch of lads playing amongst themselves.
As the football club have first preference on use of the ground, and can kick out people already booked in, it's only fair that they should have pay more than the average punter, but that sort of an increase seems like profiteering.

It's worth considering that the club pay, AFAIK, £10k a year for use of the ground for offices, media stuff and the like, and also use plenty of council facilities for training.

Originally Posted by brendy_éire

I'd argue though that the stadium essentially costs the council the same to rent out whether it's to a professional football club or bunch of lads playing amongst themselves.

But that's an invalid comparison.

A closer one would be the fact that the likes of Tesco's have to pay business rates for their retail premises, whilst charities don't.

Derry City make money out of playing at the Brandywell, whereas a bunch of lads kicking a ball around don't. At £14 an adult ticket, the club must be lifting in the region of £20,000 per average game. If the place sold out (and it's not the councils fault that it doesn't), they'd be banking around £50k. So do you really think that paying £1,000 to do that is unreasonable ?

Originally Posted by EatYerGreens

But that's an invalid comparison.

A closer one would be the fact that the likes of Tesco's have to pay business rates for their retail premises, whilst charities don't.

Derry City make money out of playing at the Brandywell, whereas a bunch of lads kicking a ball around don't. At £14 an adult ticket, the club must be lifting in the region of £20,000 per average game. If the place sold out (and it's not the councils fault that it doesn't), they'd be banking around £50k. So do you really think that paying £1,000 to do that is unreasonable ?

Far be it from me to defend anything Derry City...but your figures are miles off. If they had 3,700 people in the gates (capacity figure given), then they'd not be banking anywhere close to £50k. You're forgetting that children, OAP or Students don't pay £14, they've something in the region of 400-500 season ticket holders this season. Before you even look at what will be made, there's costs to be paid out on match night, referees, ambulance staff, security, etc.

With their current attendances dropping, and dropped since the ticketing fiasco over Europa League, they'd be lucky to be breaking £10k on match night. Hardly much to even cover their wage bill for one week, never mind two (if this £150k for releasing 7 players is anything to go by).

The council there obviously want to make a few quid off the stadium after so much expense went into it, but the size of the increase is what should be questioned here rather than any ballpark figures. Comparisons should be drawn in line with how much the likes of Galway, Shamrock Rovers, Cork City, Waterford or any other rented ground tenants pay for their LOI use.

Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954

Far be it from me to defend anything Derry City...but your figures are miles off. If they had 3,700 people in the gates (capacity figure given), then they'd not be banking anywhere close to £50k. You're forgetting that children, OAP or Students don't pay £14, they've something in the region of 400-500 season ticket holders this season. Before you even look at what will be made, there's costs to be paid out on match night, referees, ambulance staff, security, etc.

With their current attendances dropping, and dropped since the ticketing fiasco over Europa League, they'd be lucky to be breaking £10k on match night. Hardly much to even cover their wage bill for one week, never mind two (if this £150k for releasing 7 players is anything to go by).

Valid points. My estimate of around £50k for a full house was working on an assumption of 3,000 of those 3,700 seats being sold at £14. Even if they took only £40-45k from a full house, you'd struggle to argue credibly that a £1,000 rent to do so wasn't a decent deal. And Derry's wage bill is it's own business and it's own decision, and should not influence what the council charges. You won't find the rent on any flat you rent rising or falling with your salary. Bottom line is that it is not the council's responsibility for how Derry City run themselves or the fact that they can't fill the stadium. Especially since they've shot themselves in the foot with poor ticket pricing and bad PR.

Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954

The council there obviously want to make a few quid off the stadium after so much expense went into it, but the size of the increase is what should be questioned here rather than any ballpark figures. Comparisons should be drawn in line with how much the likes of Galway, Shamrock Rovers, Cork City, Waterford or any other rented ground tenants pay for their LOI use.

The disparity between the new and old pricing is probably more of a reflection of the fact DCFC got the old stadium for an absolute pittance, rather than the new proposed rent being unreasonable. Ballymena fans (who use a municipal stadium) used to gurn that they were paying a lot more rent than Derry City was in the old Brandywell. How much do the clubs you've listed above pay per match then ?

Institute moving in to the ground will help Derry City in their battle with the council, as Stute won't be able to pay the sums that Derry could.

Another thing to take into consideration is are Derry paying the stewarding/ security/ policing and other assorted match day costs in addition to whatever the rental costs are or is that included in the quote? Big difference with them added on top compared to 22 lads booking the pitch for a kickabout or local sunday/ district league teams using it and those per hour pitch rental prices.

is that a permanent move that Institute have made to the Brandywell? Saw their first game recently on BBC NI at home and there wasnt many fans at it.

Originally Posted by EatYerGreens

Valid points. My estimate of around £50k for a full house was working on an assumption of 3,000 of those 3,700 seats being sold at £14. Even if they took only £40-45k from a full house, you'd struggle to argue credibly that a £1,000 rent to do so wasn't a decent deal. And Derry's wage bill is it's own business and it's own decision, and should not influence what the council charges. You won't find the rent on any flat you rent rising or falling with your salary. Bottom line is that it is not the council's responsibility for how Derry City run themselves or the fact that they can't fill the stadium. Especially since they've shot themselves in the foot with poor ticket pricing and bad PR.

I'm fairly sure commercial rent can vary based on income. Also as the chairman previously pointed out, DCFC tickets are subject to VAT. So your sell out figure for 3K attendence would be closer to £35K. With actual paying punters more likely to fall in the 1K to 2.5K range (see elsewhere in the thread, but ticketed/seated capacity is about 3.4K, season tickets and kids(free entry) would take it below 3K), would leave gate receipts after VAT varying between £10K and £30K. And averaging less than £20K

Originally Posted by EatYerGreens

The disparity between the new and old pricing is probably more of a reflection of the fact DCFC got the old stadium for an absolute pittance, rather than the new proposed rent being unreasonable. Ballymena fans (who use a municipal stadium) used to gurn that they were paying a lot more rent than Derry City was in the old Brandywell. How much do the clubs you've listed above pay per match then ?

The Brandywell would have ceased being a municipal stadium, long ago, if it were possible (it's not). The council are responsible for it's upkeep and entitled to charge a fair price on that basis, but they themselves rent it for a nominal few (anecdotally £1 per year) from The Honourable The Irish Society. While they could have charged more before, it would have been hard to justify - the Southend stand/floodlights being only major work carried out since return of senior and that must have been almost 30 before the current modernisation.

Originally Posted by EatYerGreens

Institute moving in to the ground will help Derry City in their battle with the council, as Stute won't be able to pay the sums that Derry could.

Agreed Stute moving in can only help

Originally Posted by Martinho II

is that a permanent move that Institute have made to the Brandywell? Saw their first game recently on BBC NI at home and there wasnt many fans at it.

There was comment recently, maybe from their chairman, of next 3 or 4 years. But no mention of where they're planning to go. Course if the council decide to bog the arm in, then it raises the slim possibility of a new shared non municipal ground (we can only dream).

Hows the new stand in Tallagh stadium progressing ? Anyway have pictures of it ?

drove past yesterday , looked like it was nearly finished roof almost on,
will put a picture up tomorrow night after the match........assuming I'm in good form........maybe i'll put it up before the match starts

The Rovers-Bohs derbies in Tallaght generally attract 4-5 K attendance. With the new stand finished for next season, bringing capacity up around 8K, is there a chance future derbies would mean a full house? That would look amazing on TV.

In theory I suppose its possible the highest attendance between the two teams recently was 5200 so maybe if Rovers were going well and the game was promoted (and NOT on TV). 5200 is about capacity for Tallaght when we are playing bohs as the seat kills to keep a distance between the fans is fairly high.
Something to shoot for though.
I've said it before the TV kills us in Tallaght , the local pubs all show the match and do promotions.

Originally Posted by sbgawa

In theory I suppose its possible the highest attendance between the two teams recently was 5200 so maybe if Rovers were going well and the game was promoted (and NOT on TV). 5200 is about capacity for Tallaght when we are playing bohs as the seat kills to keep a distance between the fans is fairly high.
Something to shoot for though.
I've said it before the TV kills us in Tallaght , the local pubs all show the match and do promotions.

Would the new stand not make it easier to segregate away fans there ? One would hope that some day it might even be as near as full with Bohs fans for one of these games.

Originally Posted by pesky

Hows the new stand in Tallagh stadium progressing ? Anyway have pictures of it ?

Originally Posted by EatYerGreens

Would the new stand not make it easier to segregate away fans there ? One would hope that some day it might even be as near as full with Bohs fans for one of these games.

I would have thought it'd make sense, if you give access to the east stand from the Square end instead of around through the car park like it is now. New stand looks great. The place alomst looks like a real football stadium... in Ireland!

I think the best solution would be to get all the Rovers fans from the east stand to move into the new stand or for those that don't like being behind the goals to move to the west stand..................stick the away fans in the corner of the east stand near the square.
Should cut down on stewarding as no need to separate the fans they have that stand to themselves plus for TV matches the stadium will look a lot fuller

Are there turnstiles at the East Stand or do fans just go in by the West Stand and walk across? Any time I've been there I haven't noticed turnstiles in operation over that side, but might just have missed it.

I think the away area where it is, is perfect.

Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954

Are there turnstiles at the East Stand or do fans just go in by the West Stand and walk across? Any time I've been there I haven't noticed turnstiles in operation over that side, but might just have missed it.

I think the away area where it is, is perfect.

There are turnstiles at the East stand, usually you can move between the two stand but this season you need to have an East stand ticket and bar pass to move across because of the construction Work.