Stadium Updates (All Clubs)

[dundalkfc10]

Slight Louth variant would fit and is funny - North Louth Mid Louth or South Louth, in each distinct accent, petrified that one of the others gets the money being dropped in to the collection basket and would dive in after the 25c if it was going to the wrong gang. Just see Louth County Ground for reference.

I'd go to most Louth games and would go my local clubs senior games whenever I can, but I've never really understood why Louth never built a stadium beside United Park in Drogheda where they played for years. It has loads of room, and I wouldn't even think they would have to take out the 2nd pitch on the ground there's that much room.
I know the club probably own the grounds but surely they would be delighted with a brand new stadium for them to use aswell
Any idea why it never went there and they went with Dundalk instead?

[EatYerGreens]

Neither interested in your point nor sensitive mate. Just pointing out your attempt at humour in your view of GAA fans.
I love most sports and am first to criticise the GAA, just wouldn't stereotype GAA or LOI fans either, that way

Not interested in a point that you've responded to 3 times now?

I'm a GAA fan myself. My post was mocking culchie accents. I apologise for being the first person in Irish history ever to have poked fun at culchies.

Now move on

[Nesta99]

I'd go to most Louth games and would go my local clubs senior games whenever I can, but I've never really understood why Louth never built a stadium beside United Park in Drogheda where they played for years. It has loads of room, and I wouldn't even think they would have to take out the 2nd pitch on the ground there's that much room.
I know the club probably own the grounds but surely they would be delighted with a brand new stadium for them to use aswell
Any idea why it never went there and they went with Dundalk instead?

Youve hit on one of the main issues, The O'Raghallaighs would have had to give up ownership of their ground to Croke Park to get any GAA funding, county board would manage the facilty with the club having no say on fixture priorities. For whatever benefits there may have been they ultimately refused to hand over control as control is big currency in GAA minds especially in Louth. The area is already congested with ridiculously poor access to a L2 trauma centre (United Park often serves as the heli access) so even more road congestion for county and club games, training, underage, women etc would have been a planning nightmare. When would the club squeeze in their games? Dundalk was the traditional designation where county games were held, politics had it move to the O'Raghalaighs out of Dowdalshill when the pitch was deemed too short, when there were better options tbh and politics moved it back to Dundalk albeit to a new dedicated ground (south Louth clubs boycotted financial contributions for ages until they didnt get All Ireland tickets one year and they started paying their dues). DkIT Stadium would have been the best option in conjunction with other sports but Louth GAA aka Fitzer at the time wanted to go it alone and that has been a spectacular success.

[TonyD]

The Templemore purchase / lease makes complete sense to me from the point of view of both the council and club.

Maybe it’s just me, but is it not strange that Derry would not prioritise owning their stadium before looking at buying a training facility ? Or is there more to it, is the Council not willing to let them buy the Brandywell ?

[EalingGreen]

Maybe it’s just me, but is it not strange that Derry would not prioritise owning their stadium before looking at buying a training facility ? Or is there more to it, is the Council not willing to let them buy the Brandywell ?

The Council may be restricted by the terms of ownership they inherited from the original owners, The Honourable the Irish Company:
(Per Wiki):
"Plans of Derry City's to purchase a pitch fell through after their formation due to the tight timescale between their birth in 1928 and the season's beginning in 1929 and so the Londonderry Corporation (now known as the Derry City Council) was approached for the use of the Brandywell Stadium which had been used for football up until the end of the 19th century. This began an association between the club and the ground which has survived until the present day. The club are still operating under the constraints of the Honourable the Irish Society charter limitations which declare that the Brandywell must be available for the recreation of the community. In effect, the club do not have private ownership over the ground and, thus, cannot develop it by their own accord with that discretion being left to the Derry City Council."

The above may not be entirely accurate, or at least up-to-date, since it refers eg to "Derry City Council", which hasn't existed since 2015 That said, the terms of the Charter are going to be the same for the new Council as the former one, and I'd say "recreation of the community" precludes them from selling it to any private entity.

[EatYerGreens]

The Council may be restricted by the terms of ownership they inherited from the original owners, The Honourable the Irish Company:
(Per Wiki):
"Plans of Derry City's to purchase a pitch fell through after their formation due to the tight timescale between their birth in 1928 and the season's beginning in 1929 and so the Londonderry Corporation (now known as the Derry City Council) was approached for the use of the Brandywell Stadium which had been used for football up until the end of the 19th century. This began an association between the club and the ground which has survived until the present day. The club are still operating under the constraints of the Honourable the Irish Society charter limitations which declare that the Brandywell must be available for the recreation of the community. In effect, the club do not have private ownership over the ground and, thus, cannot develop it by their own accord with that discretion being left to the Derry City Council."

The above may not be entirely accurate, or at least up-to-date, since it refers eg to "Derry City Council", which hasn't existed since 2015 That said, the terms of the Charter are going to be the same for the new Council as the former one, and I'd say "recreation of the community" precludes them from selling it to any private entity.

Covenants - especially if they've been around for a long time - are often not the barrier they may seem. The 2 key questions would be 'Is it still enforceable' and 'Who would enforce it'? The club/council could reach an arrngement with the Honourable Irish Society over it all. If there's no real benefit to insisting upon/enforcing a covenant any more then a deal can often be done.

[EalingGreen]

Covenants - especially if they've been around for a long time - are often not the barrier they may seem. The 2 key questions would be 'Is it still enforceable' and 'Who would enforce it'? The club/council could reach an arrngement with the Honourable Irish Society over it all. If there's no real benefit to insisting upon/enforcing a covenant any more then a deal can often be done.

As a general principle, you're right on both counts.

But as regards the latter question ("who?"), you may find the Honourable would not want to see the ground sold to a private entity, especially one owned/run by a billionaire, since they are still very active in the community and charitable sphere:
"In most years, The Irish Society makes around 100 small grants to groups or individuals in County Londonderry. These are made on a cross-community basis, to organisations or individuals in the voluntary sector, such as community groups, sports clubs and other such groupings, entirely on the basis of need. For instance, in 2010-11 a number of local junior football, rugby and Gaelic clubs benefited, along with youth organisations and senior citizens’ groups, from Ballysally in Coleraine to the Creggan in Derry. An elected cross-party committee of councillors and officers from Causeway Coast & Glens Borough, Derry City & Strabane District and Mid-Ulster District Councils plays the main role in assessing applications and allocating funds."
https://honourableirishsociety.org.u...us/what-we-do/

[EatYerGreens]

As a general principle, you're right on both counts.

But as regards the latter question ("who?"), you may find the Honourable would not want to see the ground sold to a private entity, especially one owned/run by a billionaire, since they are still very active in the community and charitable sphere:
"In most years, The Irish Society makes around 100 small grants to groups or individuals in County Londonderry. These are made on a cross-community basis, to organisations or individuals in the voluntary sector, such as community groups, sports clubs and other such groupings, entirely on the basis of need. For instance, in 2010-11 a number of local junior football, rugby and Gaelic clubs benefited, along with youth organisations and senior citizens’ groups, from Ballysally in Coleraine to the Creggan in Derry. An elected cross-party committee of councillors and officers from Causeway Coast & Glens Borough, Derry City & Strabane District and Mid-Ulster District Councils plays the main role in assessing applications and allocating funds."
https://honourableirishsociety.org.u...us/what-we-do/

This is conjecture though. I have no doubt a deal could be done, as these sorts of things get done all the time. For example - Derry council could say they'd use some/all of the sale proceeds to further sport elsewhere in the city, or to advance whatever other objectives the Honorable Irish Society has.

[EalingGreen]

This is conjecture though. I have no doubt a deal could be done, as these sorts of things get done all the time. For example - Derry council could say they'd use some/all of the sale proceeds to further sport elsewhere in the city, or to advance whatever other objectives the Honorable Irish Society has.

Then why didn't the Honourable sell it to the highest bidder in the first place, or redevelop it, rather than gifting it to the Corporation? And why insert those Covenants?

Fair enough if they were now defunct, but they're still very active in the charity/community sector and likely wouldn't want to see it go to someone who would restrict its use solely for the benefit of DCFC, on a purely commercial basis?

And why would D&S Council have been spending their own money on it if they could have sold it before now to raise money and get it off their hands?

You may be right, but I'd guess otherwise.

[EatYerGreens]

Then why didn't the Honourable sell it to the highest bidder in the first place, or redevelop it, rather than gifting it to the Corporation? And why insert those Covenants?

I've no idea. You don't appear to know either. And I've no idea if anyone else does too Did they ever try and sell anything there? Bear in mind that they were an embodiment of the plantation, so may well have thought it wisest to gift the things they had (which were essentially pilfered off the natives) to the city? All moot conjecture, unless someone actually knows.

Fair enough if they were now defunct, but they're still very active in the charity/community sector and likely wouldn't want to see it go to someone who would restrict its use solely for the benefit of DCFC, on a purely commercial basis?

And why would D&S Council have been spending their own money on it if they could have sold it before now to raise money and get it off their hands?

Again - just conjecture on your part, unless you have some specific knowledge of the workings and rationale of either body.

You may be right, but I'd guess otherwise.

Time may well tell on this, who knows. Though we may both be long dead before it bothers to

[brendy_éire]

And why would D&S Council have been spending their own money on it if they could have sold it before now to raise money and get it off their hands?

Coventants aside, I think this is the real issue, the Council probably aren't interested in selling it (even if they could). The site also hosts the greyhound track, another pitch, youth club and playground. It's an income generator, and if they sold it, they're probably have to provide the same facilities elsewhere in the area.

Worth remembering that if the club did own the Brandywell, and if we went bust again, it would be lost. Maybe it's better to have it in Council ownership?

[Philosophizer]

Worth remembering that if the club did own the Brandywell, and if we went bust again, it would be lost. Maybe it's better to have it in Council ownership?

Exactly. Municipal stadiums are usually the way to go in this league.

[EatYerGreens]

Worth remembering that if the club did own the Brandywell, and if we went bust again, it would be lost. Maybe it's better to have it in Council ownership?

That's easily addressed. You just hold the stadium in a seperate legal entity/company than the club. Hey presto - automatic protection. It happens fairly frequently in football. Especially at cliubs with experience of going bust and/or almost losing everything (once bitten, and all that).

[EatYerGreens]

Exactly. Municipal stadiums are usually the way to go in this league.

As outlined above, there are other options. If clubs want to go the municipal route, then they'll have to take the rough with the smoothe on that. So no complaining about the type of pitch etc.

[EalingGreen]

Exactly. Municipal stadiums are usually the way to go in this league.

If it's the only alternative to some greedy property developer buying a club in order to asset strip (sell the ground), then maybe.

But there aren't usually a lot of votes in it for cash-strapped Councils to spend money on the ground of a not-particularly-well-regarded* football club, when even a six figure sum would take years to recoup in higher rent etc.

More importantly, the club owning its own ground gives it an asset against which it may borrow (at worst); alternatively it encourages a wealthy owner to invest in the club (at best).


* - By which I mean outside of the local football community

[redarmyfaction]

Why don't Derry train at the Brandywell?

They wouldn't be able to field 11 men most weeks if they did.

[EatYerGreens]

If it's the only alternative to some greedy property developer buying a club in order to asset strip (sell the ground), then maybe.

As already outlined above, it isn't.

[brendy_éire]

Derry City's new training base will be at Derry GAA's centre of excellence at Owenbeg for the next while. The facilities are brilliant there, so makes sense, even if it is a bit out of town.

Says it'll take two years for the new academy site to be operational, which seems ambitious.

https://www.derryjournal.com/sport/g...llence-4949407

[EatYerGreens]

Derry City's new training base will be at Derry GAA's centre of excellence at Owenbeg for the next while. The facilities are brilliant there, so makes sense, even if it is a bit out of town.

Says it'll take two years for the new academy site to be operational, which seems ambitious.

https://www.derryjournal.com/sport/g...llence-4949407

Are the players based in Derry city? Is there much travelling involved for them in this?

[Nesta99]

Are the players based in Derry city? Is there much travelling involved for them in this?

Derry (and Cork) fans do obsess about travel!