Stadium Updates (All Clubs)

[wonder88]

Halloween night, watching the highlights with Jimmy Magee on commentary, some performance a 3 nil against the Soviet Union. How far we have gone backwards in senior International soccer since.

[EalingGreen]

Well, ok; that's fair. Though given the country is called Ireland, it's hardly incorrect to use the adjective "Irish".

Maybe, but how would you react is eg teams from NI routinely referred to themselves simply as "Irish"?

Remember that southern international teams (for want of a better term) do not represent the state which chooses to call itself "Ireland". Rather they represent the FAI, under which it is required by FIFA to call its representative teams "Republic of Ireland".

By the same token, teams representing the IFA are called "Northern Ireland" (though technically I believe the IFA could still use the name "Ireland" in matches which are not also open to FAI teams - World Cup, Euro's etc - effectively friendlies, also the British Championship as was).

And why do I make this point? Aside from a general concern for accuracy*, it is because I resent the implication in their use of "Ireland" over "Republic of Ireland" that FAI teams are somehow the "real" Ireland, with NI being relegated to some sort of idiosyncratic appendage.

And maybe it's also because when I first went to internationals in Belfast (l971 onwards), we fans routinely sung and chanted for "Ireland", while FAI teams were routinely referred to as "Eire", in both parts of Ireland and beyond. While the fact of the IFA subsequently choosing to call its teams "Northern Ireland" from the 1980's onwards was a courtesy and respect to its neighbours which is not currently being reciprocated.

Above all, we in NI have at least as proud a place in the story of Irish football, and a hell of a sight older one, as our neighbours, such that if anywhere should be entitled to call itself the "Home of Irish Football", that place should undoubtedly be in Belfast/NI and nowhere else.

Rant over.

* - Some might call it pedantry

[bohsmug]

Dalymount Park was part of that version of Ireland too. Opened in 1901 and extremely proud to have won the IFA Cup, the Belfast teams were generally stronger and a tough nut to crack. Getting into dodgy territory if you insist the stadium can't refer to being Irish, whatever about being the "home" of it.

I'm not saying large parts of your reply aren't without credit and aren't interesting to read but I shouldn't be able to object to anybody from this Island referring to themselves as also being Irish if they wish, no matter what their politics are. I don't think many would have an issue with that and if they did they'd have to have a long look at themselves. Some might have an issue with somebody referring to themselves as both British and Irish, I can't deny that, but they'd be intolerant (or probably just ignorant) too, and they'd be wrong imo. That's an identity that exists and that doesn't get acknowledged enough down here. What has this got to do with future stadium developments anyway?

[John83]

Maybe, but how would you react is eg teams from NI routinely referred to themselves simply as "Irish"?

This is one of the most ignorant takes I've ever read. How do you think Irish people feel about northerners appropriating the adjective describing our ethnicity that would be entirely uncomplicated if their ancestors hadn't been planted on the island on lands seized by force creating centuries of ethnic tensions that lead to partition of the island, a civil rights crisis, and decades of simmering civil war? But, hey, they've been using that term for their football team for decades now: it's all settled, lads.

[pineapple stu]

Remember that southern international teams (for want of a better term) do not represent the state which chooses to call itself "Ireland". Rather they represent the FAI, under which it is required by FIFA to call its representative teams "Republic of Ireland".

And why do I make this point? Aside from a general concern for accuracy*, it is because I resent the implication in their use of "Ireland" over "Republic of Ireland" that FAI teams are somehow the "real" Ireland, with NI being relegated to some sort of idiosyncratic appendage.

And maybe it's also because when I first went to internationals in Belfast (l971 onwards), we fans routinely sung and chanted for "Ireland", while FAI teams were routinely referred to as "Eire",

Actually the FAI does represent the country called Ireland. FIFA don't make countries. They just settle disputes. There's no such country as the Republic of Ireland (which is just a descriptor term, like the Kingdom of Belgium)

So yes, the FAI does represent the country called Ireland - even so far as being told by FIFA it had jurisdiction over the 26 counties - and the IFA is the rump. Not liking it doesn't make it false or inaccurate.

Views from 1970s Northern Ireland are generally best left in the 70s tbh. The North was routinely referred to in 60s Irish media as "The Six Counties FA". But we've moved on

Windsor is part of the almost uniquely complicated history of Irish football. But it's not the home of Irish football, and nor is Dalyer. And nor is the Belgrade stadium the home of Croatian football any more

[2 Year Contract]

Actually the FAI does represent the country called Ireland. FIFA don't make countries. They just settle disputes. There's no such country as the Republic of Ireland (which is just a descriptor term, like the Kingdom of Belgium)

Spot on there Stu

Article 4 of the Constitution of Ireland declares that the name of the state is Ireland; Section 2 of the Republic of Ireland act 1948 declares that Republic of Ireland is "the description of the State".

The whole “home of Irish football” thing about Dalymount is a throwaway nickname that (mainly) Bohs fans seem to want to keep alive when, as mentioned, it hasn’t been a reality for decades. “The home of (insert any country) football” is the place where their national Cup Final is hosted and also in most cases where their national team play.

For what it’s worth Oriel Park I believe has signage on the front entrance to their main stand that says “The Home of Football” which if anything is just hilarious. Moral of the story is it’s probably best not to get too precious over fans painting their clubs’ home in a positive light and probably just have a laugh at it

[sbgawa]

Spot on there Stu



The whole “home of Irish football” thing about Dalymount is a throwaway nickname that (mainly) Bohs fans seem to want to keep alive when, as mentioned, it hasn’t been a reality for decades. “The home of (insert any country) football” is the place where their international team play and where their Cup Final is hosted.

For what it’s worth Oriel Park I believe has signage on the front entrance to their main stand that says “The Home of Football” which if anything is just hilarious. Moral of the story is it’s probably best not to get too precious over fans painting their clubs’ home in a positive light and probably just have a laugh at it

I've always considered the Dalymount "home of irish football" to be a joke on Bohs that they dont appear to get, bit like the comments in the Press about Rovers being "cup specialists" pre our win in 2019 for the first time in 30 years.

That being said i was at matches in Dalymount but even then i always felt like it summed up footballs place in IReland that we had to play in a dive.
Thankfully times have changed

[Buller]

I've always wondered about that actually, what were they smoking up in Dundalk when they slapped "Home of Irish Football" up on Oriel Park!!

[EalingGreen]

Dalymount Park was part of that version of Ireland too. Opened in 1901 and extremely proud to have won the IFA Cup, the Belfast teams were generally stronger and a tough nut to crack.

Of course DP has a history, and a proud one too. But my simple point is that referring to somewhere as "The home of..." implies that that is where it all started.
And the simple, undeniable fact is that Football in Ireland all started in Belfast, over 2 decades before eg Dalymount even existed.

Getting into dodgy territory if you insist the stadium can't refer to being Irish, whatever about being the "home" of it.

It isn't the "Irish" I'm objecting to - how could I? - rather it's the "home" bit, whether spiritual or physical.

I'm not saying large parts of your reply aren't without credit and aren't interesting to read but I shouldn't be able to object to anybody from this Island referring to themselves as also being Irish if they wish, no matter what their politics are. I don't think many would have an issue with that and if they did they'd have to have a long look at themselves. Some might have an issue with somebody referring to themselves as both British and Irish, I can't deny that, but they'd be intolerant (or probably just ignorant) too, and they'd be wrong imo. That's an identity that exists and that doesn't get acknowledged enough down here.

Thank you.

What has this got to do with future stadium developments anyway?

There is sometimes the view expressed that the new Dalymount might or should be bigger/better etc, on the basis that it is the "Home of Irish Football."

And while that shouldn't matter a great deal in the grand scheme of things, as someone who is interested in the whole history of the game, it irks me - probably more than it should

[Straightstory]

The Ireland 3 USSR 0 game was 1974 (not '73).
I was at that game, and there was no question at the time that Dalymount was the 'home' of Irish football. I have to say, I still think that's true, though I can obviously see that if you don't remember that era (almost fifty years ago) then you might feel different about it. 'Original', home might be more appropriate. Up until the mid 70s. every international and every Cup Final was played there. (Let's leave Northern Ireland out of this; I see we've already had one predictably sectarian response along nakedly tribal lines).

[EalingGreen]

This is one of the most ignorant takes I've ever read. How do you think Irish people feel about northerners appropriating the adjective describing our ethnicity that would be entirely uncomplicated if their ancestors hadn't been planted on the island on lands seized by force creating centuries of ethnic tensions that lead to partition of the island, a civil rights crisis, and decades of simmering civil war? But, hey, they've been using that term for their football team for decades now: it's all settled, lads.

Shouldn't you be posting on (ahem) a Gaelic football forum?

Anyhow, being "Irish" is absolutely nothing to do with "Ethnicity", as I'm sure eg Leo Varadkar, Paul McGrath or Phil Lynott would agree.

And I'm Irish because I was brought up in Ireland, as were all my parents, grandparents and great grandparents (and who knows how many generations further back?), from places as far apart as Antrim, Fermanagh, Leitrim and Tipperary.

Anyhow Mr. Biden, Air Force One is waiting on the tarmac and you're needed elsewhere....

[EalingGreen]

Actually the FAI does represent the country called Ireland. FIFA don't make countries. They just settle disputes. There's no such country as the Republic of Ireland (which is just a descriptor term, like the Kingdom of Belgium)

So yes, the FAI does represent the country called Ireland - even so far as being told by FIFA it had jurisdiction over the 26 counties - and the IFA is the rump. Not liking it doesn't make it false or inaccurate.

Of course FIFA don't "make" countries - that is my whole point! For if it did, places like Faroes, Kosovo, Gibraltar, Macau, England(!) etc wouldn't have international football teams.

Instead, as the Federation of International Football Associations, it recognises and represents Football Associations and their representative teams in international competition. Which is why there are two international football teams in Ireland, one representing the IFA and required to be called "Northern Ireland", and the other representing the FAI and required to be called "Republic of Ireland".

And if anyone wants to know where this all happened first, it was in Belfast, in 1880, with the IFA - making Belfast the indisputable "home" (birthplace) of football in Ireland.

Views from 1970s Northern Ireland are generally best left in the 70s tbh. The North was routinely referred to in 60s Irish media as "The Six Counties FA". But we've moved on

What do you mean by "60's Irish media"? The Irish Independent or Cork Examiner? The Daily Mirror, perhaps?

Do media like eg The Belfast Telegraph, or the Belfast Newsletter (coincidentally the oldest continuously published newspaper in the world) not count as "Irish" too? For I certainly don't ever recall them ever referring to "The Six Counties FA", a term which is so ignorant as to be laughable.

Fact is, you cannot simply write Northern Ireland out of its place in the history of Ireland, no matter how inconvenient or irritating its existence is, especially when it comes to matters football.

Meanwhile, if people want to discuss political matters like what the State whose capital city is in Dublin chooses to call itself, then count me out - I'm only here for the football.

[pineapple stu]

Of course FIFA don't "make" countries - that is my whole point! For if it did, places like Faroes, Kosovo, Gibraltar, Macau, England(!) etc wouldn't have international football teams.

Instead, as the Federation of International Football Associations, it recognises and represents Football Associations and their representative teams in international competition. Which is why there are two international football teams in Ireland, one representing the IFA and required to be called "Northern Ireland", and the other representing the FAI and required to be called "Republic of Ireland".

Yes, the FAI team is required to be called the "Republic of Ireland", but it can't represent the Republic of Ireland as there's no such country. It's a term used nowhere else but in football to the best of my knowledge. The FAI absolutely does represent the country called "Ireland", and we know this because FIFA explicitly admitted the FAI on the basis that it only organised football in the 26 counties. The IFA does not, any more, represent the country called Ireland, despite what its fans may think about a competition that hasn't been run in nearly 40 years. It represents the country called Northern Ireland (which, like England, is a country - it's just happens to be, strangely, a country within a country) and has a mandate to organise football only within the six counties.

The state whose capital city is in Dublin is called Ireland. That's literally a statement of fact enshrined in the Constitution. I'm not sure (and indeed don't really care) what discussion there is to be had there.

I'm clearly not writing Northern Ireland out of its place in the history of Ireland - I am, however, stating that neither Belfast nor Windsor Park nor Dalymount Park are the home of Irish football.

[EalingGreen]

Yes, the FAI team is required to be called the "Republic of Ireland", but it can't represent the Republic of Ireland as there's no such country. It's a term used nowhere else but in football to the best of my knowledge. The FAI absolutely does represent the country called "Ireland", and we know this because FIFA explicitly admitted the FAI on the basis that it only organised football in the 26 counties. The IFA does not, any more, represent the country called Ireland, despite what its fans may think about a competition that hasn't been run in nearly 40 years. It represents the country called Northern Ireland (which, like England, is a country - it's just happens to be, strangely, a country within a country) and has a mandate to organise football only within the six counties.

Once again, that's my whole point! The team does not represent the State, however it calls itself, rather it represents the Football Association of Ireland.

Otherwise, how do you account for the fact that the UN has 193 independent Member States, while FIFA has 211 Member Associations?

No matter how much you dislike or deny it, the FAI and "Ireland" (if you insist) are simply not coterminous.

The state whose capital city is in Dublin is called Ireland. That's literally a statement of fact enshrined in the Constitution. I'm not sure (and indeed don't really care) what discussion there is to be had there.

No, the state whose capital city is Dublin calls itself Ireland and if that's what you prefer, go ahead.

I could call myself King of Ireland, though it wouldn't make me so. But however you argue the political case, when it comes to football, the international team which plays its games in Dublin is called "Republic of Ireland" - it's all in here: www.fifa.com

I'm clearly not writing Northern Ireland out of its place in the history of Ireland - I am, however, stating that neither Belfast nor Windsor Park nor Dalymount Park are the home of Irish football.

[nigel-harps1954]

Funny, there's 380 pages on the stadium updates thread, and we're fittingly back talking about 1880, the formation of football in Ireland, and the breakaway of the FAI from the IFA, which coincidentally was the last time anything was actually built for football here..

[Calcio Jack]

Yes, the FAI team is required to be called the "Republic of Ireland", but it can't represent the Republic of Ireland as there's no such country. It's a term used nowhere else but in football to the best of my knowledge. The FAI absolutely does represent the country called "Ireland", and we know this because FIFA explicitly admitted the FAI on the basis that it only organised football in the 26 counties. The IFA does not, any more, represent the country called Ireland, despite what its fans may think about a competition that hasn't been run in nearly 40 years. It represents the country called Northern Ireland (which, like England, is a country - it's just happens to be, strangely, a country within a country) and has a mandate to organise football only within the six counties.

The state whose capital city is in Dublin is called Ireland. That's literally a statement of fact enshrined in the Constitution. I'm not sure (and indeed don't really care) what discussion there is to be had there.

I'm clearly not writing Northern Ireland out of its place in the history of Ireland - I am, however, stating that neither Belfast nor Windsor Park nor Dalymount Park are the home of Irish football.

Way back the term Republic of Ireland was used on an extradition order for I think it was Dessie Ellis…. His barrister launched a successful challenge based on the description being used (ROI) rather than the correct legal name Ireland and was successful.

So in the ‘real world’ the title ROI is a useful way for distinguishing between Ireland and Northern Ireland …. So split hairs all you wish but for me and most others it will continue to be used as a term of clarity so it makes sense as I say in the ‘real world’

[brendy_éire]

'Ireland' to has two meanings, so isn't ideal. 'The North' and 'the South' work grand for people who need to differiate on a daily basis, like the ones in our office. Either way, 'home of Irish football' is meaningless. There isn't one, but it's a useful ploy for Bohs to try and get an extra few quid in funding.

Dragging this back on topic, no word on the options appraisal that the council are carrying out on the Brandywell pitch, but some interesting figures on it.
The plastic pitch is bringing in £80k per annum, the grass one brought in £11k.
The pitch is due its next FIFA cert inspection in July.
The pitch has a 10 year warranty, based on 50 hours usage per week. Usage is currently 35-40 hours. The pitch was scheduled for replacement after eight years though (2026). A grass pitch can be used six hours per week.
A full rebuild of the grass pitch would take 6-12 months to bed in, would cost £600-800k. Another plastic pitch would be over £1m, a hybrid pitch (Lansdowne and Windsor have these, maybe Croke as well?) would cost about the same.

Whatever option is picked, it'll involve moving out tenants. Institute may be getting relegated this season, so maybe makes it easier to move them to another ground in the town for a while? Derry would have the option of Maginn Park again, but there would be very little appetite for that, and you'd be cancelling about 2/3s of STs.

[John83]

Shouldn't you be posting on (ahem) a Gaelic football forum?

Is that supposed to be some sort of sectarian taunt? Those aren't welcome here.

Anyhow, being "Irish" is absolutely nothing to do with "Ethnicity", as I'm sure eg Leo Varadkar, Paul McGrath or Phil Lynott would agree.

It would seem you have no idea what ethnicity means. There are dictionaries online, if you have the wit to use one. Thinking that those three aren't ethnically Irish makes you a racist, by the way. At best.

And I'm Irish because I was brought up in Ireland, as were all my parents, grandparents and great grandparents (and who knows how many generations further back?), from places as far apart as Antrim, Fermanagh, Leitrim and Tipperary.

Good for you.

Anyhow Mr. Biden, Air Force One is waiting on the tarmac and you're needed elsewhere....

Purple monkey dishwasher to you too.

[EatYerGreens]

8,000 would also be a bit of a slap in the jaw for 'The Home of Irish Football'.

[pineapple stu]

The team does not represent the State

Yes it does - it was explicitly admitted to FIFA on the basis that it organised football in the 26 counties. That's the country we call Ireland.

No, the state whose capital city is Dublin calls itself Ireland and if that's what you prefer, go ahead. I could call myself King of Ireland, though it wouldn't make me so.

**** me, this is one of the stupidest arguments I have ever, ever seen. Are you saying that the State is wrong in the name it calls itself?! Despite it being literally in the Constitution? And despite Republic of Ireland being a term that has pretty much no legal standing other than as a descriptor term?

If that's so, then Ignore List gets activated and I'm out.