Stadium Updates (All Clubs)

[Nesta99]

For me it doesnt matter how nice or modern a ground is as I really dislike sitting at games, the older and more rustic the better as they tend to have good old fashioned standing terraces. Id love to see a game at Dortmund, its still token stuff in England but hopefully standing sections will be made bigger. By the time we get all seater LoI grounds we will have come full circle and end up pulling out sections of seats in compliance with UEFA!

[EatYerGreens]

The two leagues have roughly similar crowds and roughly comparable attendances. The leagues should be comparable.

Saying that the appropriate metric for comparing leagues is attendances is putting the cart before the horse. Attendances are an outcome. What is surely more relevant is the various inputs that influence attendances in the first place e.g. population of country, size of catchment area for clubs, prevalence of other sports, relative wealth of nations etc etc. There will no doubt be a tier in Germany that has the same attendances as the LOI, for example, but that wouldn't make the two a meaningful comparison. On a similar note, the Irish League has much smaller attendances than the LOI, so by your yard stick they're not a valid comparison with the LOI. When in reality they are for lots of obvious reasons (proximity and cultural similarities being the main ones).

The places to meaningfully compare Irish football to are similar-sized nations of similar wealth, ideally where football has other sports competing against them (though not essential). Comparing us to what goes on in one of the biggest countries in Europe where football is by-far the number one game is pointless if we're being totally honest - no matter the tier involved.

[pineapple stu]

Nonsense. Comparing us to similar-sized clubs in England should force us to realise just how far behind we are in many regards, in particular in facilities, but also off-pitch income, salaries, etc.

This idea of "Ah yeah, but they're not really non-league sides" even though they are just tries to avoid an uncomfortable comparison.

Yet you'll still have some posters who reckon that LoI is around L1 level, despite all evidence to the contrary.

You can still enjoy them LoI in spite of all that. But we need to be aware of where we fall behind similar leagues so we know where we need to improve

[EatYerGreens]

Nonsense. Comparing us to similar-sized clubs in England should force us to realise just how far behind we are in many regards, in particular in facilities, but also off-pitch income, salaries, etc.

Except as you yourself have admitted, the Conference is not similar-sized clubs to the LOI. It's about half made up of former league clubs with excellent attendances for that level, and the other half primarily comprises of clubs who actually get smaller attendances than most of our Premier Division clubs do - as you can see here : Vanarama National League | Average Attendances | Home Matches | Football Web Pages . The least-supported team in the Conference Prem, for example (Dover) probably has crowds a bit smaller than even UCD get. Whereas the best supported (Wrexham) averaged over 8,500 a game. It's patently not a comparable league to our's in terms of attendances. And even less so for other key variables/inputs such as population, presence of other sports etc.

This idea of "Ah yeah, but they're not really non-league sides" even though they are just tries to avoid an uncomfortable comparison.

That point is made in relation to their size. So you're basically contradicting your own point here that comparing LOI and conference is comparing clubs with similar attendances (and thereby somehow like-for-like). Patently it is not. There is more than one variable involved in football.

You can still enjoy them LoI in spite of all that. But we need to be aware of where we fall behind similar leagues so we know where we need to improve

You seem obsessed with the idea that all that is needed to make leagues similar for comparitive purposes is attendances. When that has no actual reflection upon standard of play, which is what 99.9% of people are talking about when they look to compare leagues.

[pineapple stu]

Except as you yourself have admitted, the Conference is not similar-sized clubs to the LOI.

Actually it's the league that closest compares to the LoI in terms of attendances. Both leagues have big teams and small teams. Average crowd in National League is around 1200 for example, and South is lower again (around 1000), so that's smaller than the LoI (2000+).

You seem obsessed with the idea that all that is needed to make leagues similar for comparitive purposes is attendances.

Not sure how you draw that conclusion given my original contribution to this thread was simply to disagree with your analysis of Neil O'Riordan's article, when you said that the comparison was unhelpful because seven Conference clubs you named weren't really non-league. They are - in every respect. So again, I'll argue the comparison is quite an interesting one to see how far we lag behind a similar sized and (which you're ignoring) standard league in other areas such as, in particular, facilities.

[EatYerGreens]

Actually it's the league that closest compares to the LoI in terms of attendances. Both leagues have big teams and small teams. Average crowd in National League is around 1200 for example, and South is lower again (around 1000), so that's smaller than the LoI (2000+).

As that link I provided in my last post shows, the average attendance in the National league/Conference Prem in 2021-22 was actually c.3,000. Which is aboiut 50% higher than the LOI, and therefore undermines your notion of them being comparable leagues purely on the basis of crowds.

But again - what is your obsession with attendances being the only metric that makes leagues arguably comparable ? The majority of countries in Europe will have a tier with attendances that would be roughly comparable to the LOIs. But that doesn't therefore magically make those tiers comparable in terms of playing standard, facilities, population etc. It's baffling how you seem unable to accept this. Attendances are not the only metric to compare football leagues with. Especially as they don't reflect playing standard, which is what 99+% of people are actually talking about when they look to compare leagues.

[pineapple stu]

I said it's the league closest to the LoI in terms of attendances, which it is (marginally) - the LoI average is about double the National League North/South for example.

But again, I'm not obsessed with crowds or saying that it's the only thing comparable. It's the English league closest to the LoI in terms of standard too. I've linked this chart before to back that up, and the only competitive game between the two leagues (not a huge sample, granted) ended in a draw.

So an article contrasting the two leagues and showing where we have room for improvement is quite reasonable, in my view.

[Neish]

Was walking past the site of new Harps stadium this morning, there was a digger and truck working there

[Martinho II]

Was walking past the site of new Harps stadium this morning, there was a digger and truck working there

Great news would love to see this happen harps new ground!

[Nesta99]

Was walking past the site of new Harps stadium this morning, there was a digger and truck working there

Project must be a bit behind schedule to be working on a bank holiday!

[nr637]

Was walking past the site of new Harps stadium this morning, there was a digger and truck working there

Lets hope they weren't taking materials away for another job?

[joey B]

Lets hope they weren't taking materials away for another job?

Yeah probably for the new stadium in Letterkenny!

[Shinkicker]

Probably just a farmer taking soil to level or raise a field to stop the cattle getting foot rot. One digger and one lorry I wouldn't be getting to excited!!

[Nesta99]

Lets hope they weren't taking materials away for another job?

Half joking full in earnest or just full in earnest? - trust in the developer or whomever has access to the site mustnt be great! If farmers can waltz in to the building site and remove filling for their own use as they please, well im not sure if this is a serious comment either but if it is then what the hell is going on. The revised plan is for a 2024 opening, with half of 2022 gone it will be some going to finally get thing done in 18 months unless opening doesnt mean finished. I know I have rattled on about this, I think mainly because there is or was the tendency to point the finger at the Dept of Sport not allocating more and more funding, maybe though they have done their job by protecting funding when the project wasnt progressing as stated. Politicians were got involved, guarantees given then backed out of, but the oinion was that that this is due to some bias and neglect of the North West, when the problem may be in Donegal and not Dublin. In the vacuum of meaningful and credible information suspicion will thrive. Its not as if there isnt precedence with Tallaght Stadium and the headache that was until SDCC showed some foresight.

[nr637]

I see they’ve started work on the 4th stand in Tallaght,can we just let SDCC look after all the grounds in the country!!

Is the new 4th north stand going to be similar to the south stand opposite?

[Buller]

Is the new 4th north stand going to be similar to the south stand opposite?

It'll be a few rows taller with a slightly different design with offices and shop units beneath.

[passinginterest]

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/...-31004924.html

There’s a couple of artist impressions in article above. Looks a bit steeper and looks like it will run into the back wall so it’s accessible similar to the way the West stand is.

I was only moaning about the lack of bike stands the other day so glad to see they’re going to be included in the development too.

[Nesta99]

SDCC were first out of the blocks to see the potential of such a facility, its actually sad that it is a unique vision. Other local authorities are unlikely to be able to position themselves, even with similar facilities, to get the same return beyond the anchor tenant with RoI underage sides, Womens senior team and some other sports established there, never mind music festivals. Its also been done on a phased basis, as needed, so no massive outlay in one lump. Regionally based councils and in Dublin too will struggle to oust SDCC as the go to facility and get some payback for their outlay. Maybe regional facilities if up to scratch could get some rotation of international games but tbh, no team that is settled in Tallaght, like the womans senior side, would want to move out of a ground that they have built up a familiarity and success in for competitive games. For all the years of difficulty it is a super example of what can be done when there is the will even if it was landed in the lap of SDCC as a derelict site that needed sorting, showing some positive thinking rather than demolishing or being bullied by other organisations that coveted the site. It is a bit mad that this one final stand will cost almost as much as the whole Stranrolar build so it must have some whistles and bells included and that would make sense if needed for Cat 4 designation. The breakdown on what has been allocated by SPGs and is SDCC funded would be interesting to know and maybe indicates that projects of this size should be funneled through local authorities or some other govt agency than clubs going it totally alone - as much as a layer of protection to prevent chunks of money being spent and nothing to show. I know quangos have a chequered history in Ireland but maybe an off-shoot of Sport Ireland dedicated to delivering sporting capital infrastructure nationwide is the way to go, in cooperation with clubs, as it could be cheaper in the long run and actually deliver an end product.

[kksaints]

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/...-31004924.html

There’s a couple of artist impressions in article above. Looks a bit steeper and looks like it will run into the back wall so it’s accessible similar to the way the West stand is.

I was only moaning about the lack of bike stands the other day so glad to see they’re going to be included in the development too.

Judging by those imager There will still be room to increase the capacity of Tallaght once the new stand is built by filling in the corners between the stands in the somewhat unlikely case that a capacity of 10,000 proves inadequate.

[Nesta99]

Even if they didnt add seats it'd be good to have the ground closed in at the corners but thats nit picking.