Stadium Updates (All Clubs)

**EatYerGreens** · 22/02/2022, 1:55 PM

Originally Posted by total hoofball

Everyone is awaiting to hear the devil of detail of how the club will fund this but the club appear to be confident going by their statement last week. As I said Doyle has built a good reputation as a corporate lawyer and businessman for two/three decades I would be confident he isn't suddenly leading or being duped into some landgrab off the council though everything around Tolka has to subject to serious scrutiny after the fallout Ollie Byrne and Ossie Kilkenny deal. I would think the publicity generated by the STP campaign will put pressure on DCC adding some condition of any buy back that Shels cannot apply for future rezoning of Tolka

That suggests one way in which they WON'T get their money back. But doesn't answer my question of how WILL they get it back ? They're Venture Capitalists after all, not a charity.

**EatYerGreens** · 22/02/2022, 1:57 PM

Originally Posted by sbgawa

doyle has gone from ucd to rovers to Shels so its not a lifelong love of shels that has him there
id expect to see a small stadium with appartments and commercial parts that makes it all add up
And what harm if shels end up with a useable stadium of their own
Dalymount if it is ever built would be another plus

Hard to see how they could deliver all of that on a relatively small confined site in a way that would generate enough extra profit to both pay back the initial investmennt and add a significant return on top of it too. Sounds like trying to do too many things with a small site.

**bohsmug** · 22/02/2022, 2:06 PM

Originally Posted by sbgawa

doyle has gone from ucd to rovers to Shels so its not a lifelong love of shels that has him there
id expect to see a small stadium with appartments and commercial parts that makes it all add up
And what harm if shels end up with a useable stadium of their own
Dalymount if it is ever built would be another plus

I suppose if that scenario were to come true it depends on how much is used for apartments. It's not a huge space.

EDIT: Didn't see EatYerGreens reply. Mine looks a bit silly under that. Like I tried to make a crapper version of the same point.

**Nesta99** · 22/02/2022, 2:22 PM

It is possible with a bit of thought, Pats toyed with the idea but FC Vozdovac in Serbia shoehorned a ground and retail in to a small site, worth a look! Whether local residents or city planners have the courage to try something different is another story. Funnily enough with the move away from poured concrete stadium structures the newer systems could have been ideal for Bohs and Dalymount where the ground could have been sold to the shopping centre, for example, while also being kept for football - its not quite selling the place twice but in the ball park.

**bohsmug** · 22/02/2022, 2:39 PM

Originally Posted by Nesta99

It is possible with a bit of thought, Pats toyed with the idea but FC Vozdovac in Serbia shoehorned a ground and retail in to a small site, worth a look! Whether local residents or city planners have the courage to try something different is another story. Funnily enough with the move away from poured concrete stadium structures the newer systems could have been ideal for Bohs and Dalymount where the ground could have been sold to the shopping centre, for example, while also being kept for football - its not quite selling the place twice but in the ball park.

OK I googled. Actually think this stadium was spoken about when Pats had their plans. http://stadiumdb.com/stadiums/ser/stadion_vozdovac

**EalingGreen** · 22/02/2022, 2:58 PM

Originally Posted by Nesta99

FC Vozdovac in Serbia shoehorned a ground and retail in to a small site, worth a look! Whether local residents or city planners have the courage to try something different is another story. Funnily enough with the move away from poured concrete stadium structures the newer systems could have been ideal for Bohs and Dalymount where the ground could have been sold to the shopping centre

Great spot (if you're a stadium nerd like me, at any rate!).

https://youtu.be/2FIzl3Dnq0s

The only thing is, Wiki has the stadium cost at €22m, which was in 2011/12 and at Serbian construction costs - I'd say you could be looking at least 50% more (100%?) to build in Dublin at the present time. While a shopping centre to pay for it is nowhere nearly so lucrative since Covid/online shopping etc.

And while property prices are going crazy in Dublin, I'm not sure you could build a stadium on top of blocks of flats lol.

EDIT: Just seen Bohsmug's post.

**sbgawa** · 22/02/2022, 3:01 PM

One model ive seen is 4 stands but with the corners filled in by Appartment blocks instead of wrap around seating.
Tallaght Stadium is an example of a stadium that could incorporate that type of system (might keep the wind out

)

**EalingGreen** · 22/02/2022, 3:15 PM

Originally Posted by sbgawa

One model ive seen is 4 stands but with the corners filled in by Appartment blocks instead of wrap around seating.
Tallaght Stadium is an example of a stadium that could incorporate that type of system (might keep the wind out

)

That's basically what Leyton Orient did at Brisbane Road:

Mind you, they did have Barry Hearn behind them - the same boy could make money selling ice to Eskimos!

Also interesting pic of the ground back in the day:

https://pixels.com/featured/leyton-o...l-grounds.html

**EatYerGreens** · 22/02/2022, 3:16 PM

Originally Posted by sbgawa

One model ive seen is 4 stands but with the corners filled in by Appartment blocks instead of wrap around seating.
Tallaght Stadium is an example of a stadium that could incorporate that type of system (might keep the wind out

)

Leyton Orient did something similar.

That kind of approach would work for a club developing a stadium, as it would probably generate the surplus needed to pay for the rest. The problem here with Tolka is that the site needs to be paid for, and there's also a third entity who need a return too. Which goes back to the point I made previoiusly about trying to do too much with the site. They need to generate income form Tolka to :

1) Buy the site, and cover DCC's costs-to-date.
2) Re-develop the site for football.
3) Re-develop the site for non-football uses which will return a large capital sum to pay off the costs of 1, 2 and 3 (e.g. housing)
4) Provide a profit/return for the Venture Capitalists.

If Shels already owned Tolka then I could see a redevelopment model working. But otherwise I can't see how such a confined and relatively small site can generate the revenue to cover all 4 of the above. 3 of them maybe, but not all 4.

**Nesta99** · 22/02/2022, 3:25 PM

Yup it could have been around the St Pats plan that it came to attention first. Its just an example really, with a bespoke design it could tick boxes. Residential units could be incorporated, eg a scaled down version of Southend Utd's plans. Most of the cost goes in to groundworks, foundation (so done already for a new ground level build), and the old fashioned poured concrete done away with so no need to be at ground level always for football. Current methods mean it is no more cost prohibitive to add a LoI sized ground on top of a new building than it is to build stand types like the original one in Tallaght or Stranrolar on a greenfield site. Its frustrating to see these newer methods overlooked here, a misperception that 'prefab' is always bad/temporary. Cheaper, quicker, more flexible in tight plots of land, less disruption, 'greener', UEFA accredited etc. The only real reason i can think of that that there is resistance is that grants are not allocated unless certain methods/construction companies are used which could be down to vested interests politically. Louth GAAs cost of a new stadium is ridiculous for what its to deliver and that cost, to the tax payer, is increasing by the day. The down side to any significant development to Tolka or even Dalymount is that they can never fully meet UEFA Cat 4 rating on non capacity issues. They would also probably have to have an artificial surface.

**bohsmug** · 22/02/2022, 4:35 PM

Originally Posted by sbgawa

One model ive seen is 4 stands but with the corners filled in by Appartment blocks instead of wrap around seating.
Tallaght Stadium is an example of a stadium that could incorporate that type of system (might keep the wind out

)

Have often thought that would be the best option with Tallaght. Not apartment blocks but buildings housing community facilities, council offices or something. Don't need any additional capacity, particularly once the final stand is built.

**joey B** · 22/02/2022, 4:57 PM

Brisbane road in London,Leyton Orients ground has apartment blocks in the 4 corners of the ground,the land was sold to developers to raise funds….

**ashbournebohs** · 22/02/2022, 5:50 PM

I love Tolka as a Bohs fan we won a league there etc etc.The problem I feel with any development big or small is the accessibility to it. Even now Essentially 4000 people are walking out 2 gates onto the 1 road. This issue I feel holds the site back somewhat . I'm sure there are work arounds regarding the Tolka side etc but that might increase any costs

**redarmyfaction** · 22/02/2022, 9:49 PM

Originally Posted by danthesaint

any artist designs on what it will look like, sam??

The designs I seen had floating cars in them.

**Neish** · 24/02/2022, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by ashbournebohs

I love Tolka as a Bohs fan we won a league there etc etc.The problem I feel with any development big or small is the accessibility to it. Even now Essentially 4000 people are walking out 2 gates onto the 1 road. This issue I feel holds the site back somewhat . I'm sure there are work arounds regarding the Tolka side etc but that might increase any costs

Thought the same, been at Tolka or 3 or 4 occasions when there was large crowds and it can be a chaotic.

See many Harps fans favouring a redevelopment of the current Finn Park over the long delayed new ground across the river in Stranorlar. And as much as I'd love to stay at there, Finn Park's location is far from ideal from hosting big crowds, anything over 2k and Navenny street is a congested nightmare. Thats not to mention complicationS of the actual development of the current Finn Park, with a fairly busy road on one side, Aldi on the opposite side. the river at one end and private property at the terraced town end

**bohsmug** · 24/02/2022, 12:02 PM

The STP group do have a suggestion for developing access behind the Ballybough End. That would feed the Riverside. Back when Tolka Park hosted FAI Cup finals the queue to get in to the Riverside would last for a while into the first half. The queue would tend to wrap around the perimeter of the pitch. I'd a friend who was caught on camera in that queue while pulling a sickie from work

**Glen Of Aherlow** · 24/02/2022, 2:57 PM

I totally get Shels fans wanting to stay at Tolka but the big fear would be that it all ends up with nothing happening with either Dalymount or Tolka , which is no use to either club

**oriel** · 27/02/2022, 4:28 PM

I thought the pitch at the Brandywell looked just dreadful on the tv game v Rovers, loads of white patches in both boxes, and before anyone jumps on, I am not a fan of the pitch in Dundalk, hoping grass will be installed next season.

Been to Derry on two stop overs in 2019 and had a ball, brilliant craic with the fans, and a great city, so this is not a dig, I just think that pitch doesn't get half the criticism it probably should get and it also looked terrible for our visit there last August.

**EalingGreen** · 27/02/2022, 4:54 PM

Originally Posted by oriel

I thought the pitch at the Brandywell looked just dreadful on the tv game v Rovers, loads of white patches in both boxes...

... I just think that pitch doesn't get half the criticism it probably should get and it also looked terrible for our visit there last August.

Remember that Institute have also been playing there since their ground was flooded out, so double the number of matches, with no sign of that changing any time soon
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northe...-west-47744605

On top of which, it's not just a game every week, but lately it's been two storms every week!

**oriel** · 27/02/2022, 5:01 PM

Yep - aware of that re Institute, but still looks in bad shape and not getting looked after, the pitch in oriel park had some bad seasons, but never saw it as bad as the white patches in both boxes in Brandywell.

The pitch aside, its a lovely stadium, fully seated and covered, and a great view from all seats.