New Irish manager

Originally Posted by Superhoops

The real problem of course is that whenever someone eventually is appointed by whatever process, there will be those on here and elsewhere who won't agree with the choice or the method of selection.

Delaney will be criticised for either getting involved or not getting involved. The Board of Management will be criticised for either accepting or not accepting the recommendation of the selection panel or for being too easily influenced by Delaney and if in 2 years time we have not qualified to the WCF the 'I told you so' brigade will be out in force, regardless of who is appointed.

I agree, but the appointment should at least allow us to all get behind someone once appointed. The problem with Stan is that he lost the confidence of the fans from the moment he took the podium. The background also being the promise of a world class player. He was never even considered the sharpest knife in the draw.

There will be pros & cons for all, and we should accept that. If there is not even one pro (as with Stan) then it really makes it difficult to build confidence or faith.

Originally Posted by harps1954

Lets look at all our recent previous managers. Big Jack aside, how many of them had done anything before they came to us? And what have many of them done since they left us? Why, all of a sudden, do we think we should be getting someone "World Class".

Roy Hodgson does seem to be the best of what's been talked about, but I have just one question about him. Someone mentioned that his last three management jobs have been Finland, UAE and some team in Norway. Why, if he is such a great manager/coach, are these the teams he has managed. Why has he never managed the English team? If he was such a great manager/coach, why did he not get the England job ahead of Steve McClaren? Why has he never managed one of the other "bigger nations". And, when manager of Blackburn, he made a bit of a balls at that.

Anyhow, look where all our previous managers have come from:

Eoin Hand - combined the role of International Manager with that of managing Limerick.
Jack Charlton - had limit success with quite a number of teams in England, and he wasn't even the FAI's first choice. Both Bob Paisley and John Giles were favourites ahead of Jack, but they made a balls of the selection process.
Mick McCarthy - only job prior to the Ireland one was Millwall in what is now known as the Championship. Joe Kinnear was favourite to get the job at the time and McCarthy received the job on a split decision.
Brian Kerr - From the FAI's youth ranks, via St. Pat's. Again, got it on a split decision with John Delaney voting against him in favour of Bryan Robson.
Stephen Staunton - Bottle carrier with Walsall was his only experience of the dugout outside of playing.

So, in the past, our managers haven't exactly had a great track record or a great CV. What's to make people think that it will be any different this time.

Would O'Leary not be better than any/most of the above. At least he done something of note at both Leeds and Villa. Or what about Venables. At least he was managing / coaching at some capacity at International level in the last ten years. The same with Hodgson - he has been managing at International level at some level up until recently. Or Dalglish. He hasn't been doing much for the past ten years, but at least he has a CV that is better than most if not all of our previous six managers.

I don't know who we'll end up with, but if the past six appointments are anything to go by, god only knows who we could get. To tell you the truth, I'd take any one from O'Leary, Venables, Hodgson or Dalglish at this stage. But we'll probably end up with someone like Kenny Cunningham or Bryan Robson!!

Regarding the first point, we should hope to get a 'world-class' manager because for the first time in history we are able to pay the manager world-class wages....

And the point regarding Venables coaching at international level in the last ten years doesnt really add up. For Gods sake Stan was coaching at international level, doesnt make him a world class manager, and what about McClaren, he's an abysmal coach, yet he had the biggest job in England. Just goes to show that managing one of the larger nations (Im not including Stan & Ireland) doesnt equate to being a great manager.

Originally Posted by Paddy Garcia

I agree, but the appointment should at least allow us to all get behind someone once appointed. The problem with Stan is that he lost the confidence of the fans from the moment he took the podium. The background also being the promise of a world class player. He was never even considered the sharpest knife in the draw.

There will be pros & cons for all, and we should accept that. If there is not even one pro (as with Stan) then it really makes it difficult to build confidence or faith.

I don't dissagree with you.
The pain threshold is quite low. Faith only gets you so far, fans have to see some evidence.
Lets pretend Hodgson gets the job and mid campaign experiences the equivalent of what happenned to Finland in the EQ, lose away to Montenegro followed by a loss at home to Bulgaria. Then see how deep that faith goes.

Strange twist at Ladbrokes, Brady down to evens fav. TV at 6/4 there.
Maybe some pennies are dropping that Brady is the best connected manager to the selection panel.

Originally Posted by geysir

Strange twist at Ladbrokes, Brady down to evens fav. TV at 6/4 there.
Maybe some pennies are dropping that Brady is the best connected manager to the selection panel.

Brady's refusal last week to answer questions from the RTE reporter about the job was very strange. He must have been told by somebody (Giles?) that he has a real chance of getting the job. Otherwise why we would suddenly refuse to answer questions considering the week before he was only too willing to talk about the job. If he gets the nod then say goodbye to us qualifying.

Originally Posted by geysir

Strange twist at Ladbrokes, Brady down to evens fav. TV at 6/4 there.
Maybe some pennies are dropping that Brady is the best connected manager to the selection panel.

bookmakers odds always follow the money. the prices are indicative only of the money placed, not the probability of the person getting the job.

a prime example is the market for big brother evictions. they are never accurate to the odds of eviction and a lot of money could be made by backing the bookies outsiders.

Brady cannot be the next manager of Ireland but I think he may have a job in there somewhere. THere is no way they can go for an ex player with very little experience of achieving anything in the game.

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

Brady cannot be the next manager of Ireland but I think he may have a job in there somewhere. THere is no way they can go for an ex player with very little experience of achieving anything in the game.

Chippy would be a great number 2.Dream ticket ,Houllier and Brady?

Originally Posted by SUB of the day

Chippy would be a great number 2.Dream ticket ,Houllier and Brady?

Yeah, that might work, prefer Hodgson and Brady though.

Hodgson with Brayd maybe, but then again a number 2 should never be imposed on a manager. But jesus those two would know about the italian game and the British game and the Irish game between them all.

Originally Posted by Ireland4ever

Regarding the first point, we should hope to get a 'world-class' manager because for the first time in history we are able to pay the manager world-class wages....

Not really - it's the clubs (in England esp, but also Italy, Germany and Spain) who are paying "world-class wages", and so attracting the top managers.

For example, Ramos at Spurs - an average English club - is pulling in over €6 million (£4m stg) per year! Eriksson could easily have got a leading international side to manage post-England, but ended up at another mediocre English club.

Or look at the Scottish FA, who are certainly a wealthier Association than the FAI, with the National Coaches job also being "bigger". They appointed Walter Smith - a very sound manager with Rangers and Everton, but hardly "world class" a la Lippi or Capelli, for example. But despite his being very successful for his own National team, when Rangers came calling, off he went. His successor, McLeish, was equally successful, with the prospect of making a name for himself should Scotland qualify for WC2010. He's now at Birmingham City.

Mark Hughes left a promising Wales set-up for Blackburn.

And when the English FA finally appoints its replacement for McLaren, whether the new man is "World Class" or not, he will be on a fee that the FAI couldn't even dream of, simply because they feel compelled to compete with their domestic clubs.

Having said all that, people shouldn't confuse "world class" with "competence". When Sanchez took over NI, it was on around £100k p.a. and he seemingly only got the job because Aberdeen's Assistant Manager (Nicholl) wouldn't do it for that price. Yet Sanchez was an inspired (lucky!) choice. Even his likely replacement, Worthington, is likely only to be on around £200k p.a and if confirmed, I feel he'll do a sound enough job for a couple of years

The other thing to be said is that even if the FAI should get a "World Class" manager, and he's correspondingly successful, there's every chance his enhanced profile will lead to his being poached by a club (especially if he's not native Irish?)

As with certain top players who don't much care for international football, so it is increasingly with coaches - the clubs are exerting ever more influence.

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

For example, Ramos at Spurs - an average English club - is pulling in over €6 million (£4m stg) per year! Eriksson could easily have got a leading international side to manage post-England, but ended up at another mediocre English club.

Or look at the Scottish FA, who are certainly a wealthier Association than the FAI, with the National Coaches job also being "bigger".

you are dead right there EG , we cannot hope to compete with even an "average" ( spurs are your team right?) premiership outfit in terms of wages for a manager , we are looking for a fallen angel like o'leary or houllier , fellas with something to prove who would like to get back in the premiership and a good showing with us would propel them back into the thoughts of premiership chairmen.

As for the SFA being wealthier than the FAI , I'd like to see your stats on this one and would beg to differ and as for the coaches job i really dont think scotland manager is any bigger a job than wales or NI or ours , Its only when you make something of the International manager job that it becomes prestigious. Otherwise very few are interested as you can see from all the has-beens and non entities who get quoted as being interested when the posts become available.

We are not in aposition to afford a world class manager even an out of work one like Jose Mourinho. That is even if they'd take the job.

We are in a position to get a competent manager who knows how to get organsie a team, motivate a team and get results. If they are successful and get us to the WC and make a decent showing then we'll probably lose them to a Blackburn or Birmingham.

My concern is that the guys being mentioned for our job (apart from Souness) were not even good enough to be considered for Derby, Wigan, bolton and Birmingham. Venables ok because of his age but if O'Leary or Brady are decent managers then why are they not on the short list for even Derby.

We are not going to get somebody already in a job

I'd like to see us get somebody with a track record of being successful even if it's with a mediocre premiership side and preferably with International experience. Hodgson seems an obvious choice. Frankly nobody else mentioned (apart from Jewell who is now gone) seem capable of doing the job.

I'd also consider Billy Davies who was probably unfortunate to bring Derby up too soon but has still got a decent track record.

I'd love Sam Allardyce if Newcastle would only sack him. We had him in Limerick for a year. This is from the club that turned down Martin O'Neill.

The SFA are not wealtheir than the FAI and they are certainly not going to pay more money than than us on a manager. Anyway I think people have missed the point. The Premiership is an inflated market so that is why we are better off looking outside of that and looking for an international manager in the bracket of Hodgrson, Beenhakker etc. THat is why all along I have said Hodgson. I was not confident that he would get it but you never know, I actually think he has a better chance that I thought when I said it. For some reason his name has become more and more popular on this site and other media outlets,.

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

Brady cannot be the next manager of Ireland but I think he may have a job in there somewhere. THere is no way they can go for an ex player with very little experience of achieving anything in the game.

That's about it, too many unknowns with Liam. Part of me would would love if we had such a committed Irish team manager like Brady as opposed to Hodgson, who it could be said wanders around from job to job, 8 or 9 jobs in 10 years.

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Or look at the Scottish FA, who are certainly a wealthier Association than the FAI

Simply not true!

Have you seen the latest accounts for the FAI....never in the history of Irish football have they been so wealthy.

€10m taken form the game at home to Germany this year alone
Numerous attendances of over 70,000 in last 12 months also.

Originally Posted by geysir

That's about it, too many unknowns with Liam. Part of me would would love if we had such a committed Irish team manager like Brady as opposed to Hodgson, who it could be said wanders around from job to job, 8 or 9 jobs in 10 years.

I think people are overplaying this thing to be honest. Two years etc suits us at the moment. We all did not agree with the 4 year plan for Staunton and I would not agree with a 4 year contract for anybody. Just give the new manager a 2 year contract and if he is doing well

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

I think people are overplaying this thing to be honest. Two years etc suits us at the moment. We all did not agree with the 4 year plan for Staunton and I would not agree with a 4 year contract for anybody. Just give the new manager a 2 year contract and if he is doing well

I agree. I don't mind that much if we lose our next manager after the qualifiers/finals so long as he makes us 'competitive' again (ie. gives us a good chance of qualifying for a finals). I'd rather that than someone who is willing to stay on further but won't increase our chances of qualifying. If Hodgson was given the job, took us to the finals and then left afterwards I wouldn't have a problem with this and wouldn't think it was a mistake appointing him.

I doubt anyone would have any regrets about whatever it took to get to the Finals

He did well by standards in Finland, they seriously wanted him to continue on with the job, he resigned after 15 months for a reported ambassadorial upstairs role at Inter.

We do not know the ins and outs of the FInnish FA or anything like that so I think it would be unfair to judge from afar without any of the appropriate information. Also Hodgson has seriously hinted he will take an international job in my view so I don't think he will be at Inter long if he is offered a decent international job.

I think he probably left Finland because he felt he had taken them as far as he could.