Kavanagh and S.Reid out!

**pineapple stu** · 29/09/2006, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by John83

Man, it's sad that we're relying on him. He's 32 as well.

If he's good enough, he's old enough. We're not exactly in a position to turn down the chance of a central midfielder playing regular Premiership football and with Champions' League experience.

**elroy** · 29/09/2006, 12:39 PM

It is ironic about Carsley but he is one of our best options at the moment. One note of caution though, moyes is a fine manager and obviously is getting the best out of carsley, theres no guarantee that Stan will do the same.

On Matt Holland I'm not sure he would offer anything different, he always has had the tendancy to be a passenger in midfield and doesnt impose himself enough in my opinion. His best games arguably for us were when Keane was beside him.
He does pop up with odd goal though, which is one thing lacking in our CM.

**eirebhoy** · 29/09/2006, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by drinkfeckarse

Does anyone else find it ironic that lots of people are screaming for Carsleys return yet there was hardly a positive comment when he was involved and hardly a murmur when he announced his retirement??

Don't get me wrong, Carsley can do a job on his day but he hasn't turned into Zidane overnight and I'll bet my mortgage most of those same people will be slagging him off IF he returns and has a stinker.

Carsley is the 1 player we need in the team which is why we're screaming for his inclusion. He's the type of player we're missing.

**Stuttgart88** · 29/09/2006, 12:44 PM

Exactly. A holding player

**pete** · 29/09/2006, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Exactly. A holding player

Is a holding player one that keeps the ball as he cannot pass?

**drinkfeckarse** · 29/09/2006, 12:49 PM

You are not answering my question, when has he turned into this sublime holding player? Nobody was clambering for his inclusion a few years ago. I know we had better options then but I doubt he has improved considerably. Decent player that he is, I really don't see him as any better than what we have and he's certainly not the "missing link".

**Stuttgart88** · 29/09/2006, 12:54 PM

Sorry lads, was just sharing a joke with eb relating to a discussion on the "Giles' Resignation...." thread.

Of the options available to us I maintain that I'd be happy with any 2 of Carsley, Miller & Douglas.

Is Carsley the be-all and end-all? Of course not. Is he a better player than O'Shea? Yes.

If Staunton even hides behind the excuse of injuries to select the O'Shea / Kilbane pairing again he can just **** off outta here. I doubt he will pick them both again though.

**youngirish** · 29/09/2006, 1:07 PM

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Sorry lads, was just sharing a joke with eb relating to a discussion on the "Giles' Resignation...." thread.

Of the options available to us I maintain that I'd be happy with any 2 of Carsley, Miller & Douglas.

Is Carsley the be-all and end-all? Of course not. Is he a better player than O'Shea? Yes.

If Staunton even hides behind the excuse of injuries to select the O'Shea / Kilbane pairing again he can just **** off outta here. I doubt he will pick them both again though.

At this stage I would play Carsley and Ireland to be honest. I know it would be a baptism of fire for Ireland but he has shown in the recent past that he has the talent to be brilliant on ocassions (Against Man U and Everton last season for example) and we'll need a top performance in Central Midfield to beat the Czechs. Miller and/or Douglas are in no way up to the task (of this I'm sure) so I think we need to gamble as I don't believe we've any alternatives good enough to get us the result we need.

**Stuttgart88** · 29/09/2006, 1:07 PM

Originally Posted by drinkfeckarse

You are not answering my question, when has he turned into this sublime holding player?

That wasn't your question

**shakermaker1982** · 29/09/2006, 1:13 PM

Carsley with A Reid/Douglas or Ireland would be my choice. If Kilbane or O'Shea get the nod again then we really are in deep water.

I have to admit I was never a huge fan of Carsley, but back then we had Roy Keane. Now we have O'Shea and Kilbane in contention for a CM place so all of a sudden Carsley does look like a saviour........ throw in the fact he is in form and playing well then he has to start IMO.

**eirebhoy** · 29/09/2006, 1:19 PM

Originally Posted by drinkfeckarse

You are not answering my question, when has he turned into this sublime holding player? Nobody was clambering for his inclusion a few years ago. I know we had better options then but I doubt he has improved considerably. Decent player that he is, I really don't see him as any better than what we have and he's certainly not the "missing link".

Seriously? I think he's far better than anything we have. We're talking about a choice between O'Shea, Douglas and that's about it.

**Emmet** · 29/09/2006, 1:21 PM

Is there a current list of Centre Midfield players who are actually fit? I don't really have too much a problem with Ireland - he can pass the ball and is not uncomfortable when he is in possession which immediately puts him ahead of most of his teammates in that position! Yes he is inexperienced but the only way to get round that is to play him. Personally I don't really care either way about Carsley - he is better than JoS but given it is highly unlikely JoS will be dropped that's largely irrelevant. As has already been pointed out Carsley isn't particularly brilliant anyway and a lot of people's opinions are perhaps based on one recent performance (Liverpool) as opposed to all the mediocrity he offered us in quite a few matches before he retired.

**NeilMcD** · 29/09/2006, 1:35 PM

My opinions are based on the fact that when he was in the team 2 seasons ago Everton qualified for the Champions League. Last season he was missing for most of it and they struggled. This season he is back in the team and they are doing well again. Is he the sole reason for this, No, is he an important factor in this, I would answer yes.

He is not Roy Keane or Viera or Alonso but he is a lot better than Kilbane or O Shea and therefore he should start for us. He is a midfiedler, on form for a team that is going well. In that regard I think he should start for us. He is not the saviour but he is a stop game for at least 6-12 months while Joey O Brien establishes himself as a midfielder.

**geysir** · 29/09/2006, 2:15 PM

A good notable Carsley game for Ireland doesn't exactly spring to mind.
AFAIR he is sombody who didn't fxzt things up too much as well as no harm in having that escaped convict mean character look on your side. You can expect fewer mistakes, better distribution and the odd thunderbolt from outside the box.
I noticed he could stroke a pinpointed pass > 50m at Celtic pk, so it is possible.
Still, can't quite imagine a functioning CM with him and O'Shea.

**NeilMcD** · 29/09/2006, 2:31 PM

Who is WIR out of curiousity.

**Stuttgart88** · 29/09/2006, 2:38 PM

Originally Posted by geysir

A good notable Carsley game for Ireland doesn't exactly spring to mind.

No but poor games from O'shea & KK do. I've no idea who WIR is either. A few lunchtime drinks up your way?

**Stuttgart88** · 29/09/2006, 2:39 PM

WIR = What I rate?

**drinkfeckarse** · 29/09/2006, 2:51 PM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

playing regular Premiership football and with Champions' League experience.

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

My opinions are based on the fact that when he was in the team 2 seasons ago Everton qualified for the Champions League.

Have I missed something here? The qualified for the qualifying rounds and were subsequently humped. Hardly worth mentioning to enhance your argument.

**geysir** · 29/09/2006, 2:53 PM

Sorry for any confusion, purely coincidental.
WIR = what I remember
(and it gets less and less with every passing day.)

I couldn't remember the correct one - AFAIR.

**drinkfeckarse** · 29/09/2006, 2:58 PM

Originally Posted by eirebhoy

Seriously? I think he's far better than anything we have. We're talking about a choice between O'Shea, Douglas and that's about it.

Did you think he was far better than what we had when he was involved 2-3 years ago? As bad as O'Shea has been for us, I'd probably go with him and Ireland. He's bound to have a good game at some stage for us and the law of averages say he's overdue

Ireland is one of the few inventive players we have.

Carsley is a decent player as I've said but I think everybody forgets that he was no world beater in his time with us. Replacing one average player with another might not necessarily solve anything that's all I'm getting at.

EDIT: Assuming Andy Reid isn't fit of course.