King of Ireland?

Neil · 28/06/2001, 3:16 PM

Gillingham striker Marlon King could be Mick McCarthy�s next recruit after manager Andy Hessenthaler revealed that there had been an approach from the FAI.

With Niall Quinn�s future uncertain, McCarthy has been actively seeking potential replacements � Clinton Morrison the latest � and King has been scoring regularly enough to attract attention.
The 21-year-old scored 12 goals in 26 league games last season and it appears that he qualifies to play for Ireland through the parentage rule.

"The only thing I know is that he's had an approach. His agent has spoken to us and said he's considering it,� said Hessenthaler. �He doesn't think he's got a future with England - a lot of players look at it that way. It's a difficult one but if you look at the England scene at the moment and the likes of Owen, Fowler and Heskey then I think he's probably doing the right thing."

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Do we really want to lower ourselves to letting *****s who "don't think (they've) got a future with England" play for us?

**Gaz** · 28/06/2001, 3:45 PM

This is getting ridiculous - I have no issue with English born players declaring for Ireland, but I DO have a problem when the only reason they're doing it is to use us as a sort of backup plan. That's offensive, and if that's the sort of crap McCarthy is resorting to now, then he's fallen even lower in my estimation of him.

Leonard · 28/06/2001, 8:29 PM

David Kelly is still going! Having talks with Motherwell at the moment, and as he is the last Irish striker to score against England, I don't think we can criticise him.

**pete** · 29/06/2001, 9:30 AM

�He doesn't think he's got a future with England - a lot of players look at it that way. It's a difficult one but if you look at the England scene at the moment and the likes of Owen, Fowler and Heskey then I think he's probably doing the right thing."

makes me sick to think we "recruiting" players who think that & a bloody manager backing them up!!!

**�anna** · 29/06/2001, 10:29 AM

Yeah, this is the kinda thing that gets me really annoyed! McCarthy OUT! Gunther OUT!

**The Legend** · 29/06/2001, 6:17 PM

If i was manager of the irish team, i would force all the team to learn the feicin national anthem, and sing it when they line up in front of the camera!

If english born people are going to play for us, it's the least they can do!

They can have a sing along on the team bus! including a rousing rendition of Black and Tans before any game against England!

**rebel yell** · 30/06/2001, 11:07 PM

I think ur all being a bit harsh. Think about the amount of games
our own Roy the boy has missed for Ireland cos United had a
big game coming up- and no one would question his Irishness!
Compare this to Seamus Mcdonagh the goalkeeper who as I recall
only qualified thru parentage and he was ever present. Also I think the Liverpool players( especially Ronnie Whelan) often pulled
out of games only to play for the pool next weekend.

**niamh** · 15/07/2001, 7:09 PM

but I DO have a problem when the only reason they're doing it is to use us as a sort of backup plan. That's offensive, and if that's the sort of crap McCarthy is resorting to now, then he's fallen even lower in my estimation of him.

We have got many players over the years who didn't consider themselves Irish until they were approached by the FAI...Ray Houghton and John Aldridge to name just two, and would you prefer that they never declared?

I do take you point though and it is nice to see that the situation has improved and that most of the players that pull on Irish shirts these days are born here. But they were inspired and watched people who weren't and we should remember that.

**niamh** · 15/07/2001, 7:12 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by The Legend
[B]If i was manager of the irish team, i would force all the team to learn the feicin national anthem, and sing it when they line up in front of the camera!

Would be nice to see them singing like Niall Quinn always does. Jack Charlton had plans on doing it until he realised it was in Irish. Mick hasn't a word a Irish so I'd find it hard to see him ever doing anything about it. Our only hope being that with most of the players playing for the team being born here it might catch on. All schools should teach the national anthem anyway so that the younger kids know the words...

**Dodge** · 19/07/2001, 3:05 PM

Kevin Klbane sings the anthem....I'm not sure but I imagine he sings it in English

I think players should declare for their country before the age of 20...that way we're not a back up plan

**Pablo** · 19/07/2001, 3:59 PM

well to be fair we have gotten a lot better than the Charlton era. most of the lads are Irish or genuinly connected now. Glen Crowe must be sick to the stomach if this guy gets the nod ahead of him.....

**The Legend** · 27/07/2001, 11:16 PM

Well... he officially decided to declare for ireland now anyway!

Gerry Desmond · 28/07/2001, 1:34 PM

...a few Brazilians discovered Irish grannies would we have the same attitude to them as a lot of people have to the Morrisons and Kings of this world. There was a similar attitude to Cascarino until he scored a few goals then that was previously forgotten. When Charlton took over he was greeted at Lansdowne with banners proclaiming 'go home Union Jack'. 2 or 3 years later would anyone have *dared* hang a slogan like that at the ground as the Boys in Green took off?
Obviously there should be (and in fact there are) clear rules about nationality either for citizens in general or footballers in particular.
As for the crazy National Anthem argument, how many of those insisting it should be sung could hold a conversation in Irish themselves?

BTW, I'm not particularly pro-Morrison/King/similar journeymen, but at least keep the argument logical - the anthem thing is a joke.

Gerry

**Pablo** · 28/07/2001, 2:23 PM

well Gerry hows about this:
any success achieved during the Charlton era was undermined by the world and Brittish press in particular as the Granny rule became a standing joke.
"he once drank a pint of guiness" or "he owns an Irish setter" were how some players dubious connections were laughingly described

I was so proud to see the Irish team of the present day do so well up to know in the qualifiers, with what has to be the most successfull Irish team ever( really irish that is)

Gerry Desmond · 28/07/2001, 3:01 PM

Originally posted by Pablo
well Gerry hows about this:
any success achieved during the Charlton era was undermined by the world and Brittish press in particular as the Granny rule became a standing joke.
"he once drank a pint of guiness" or "he owns an Irish setter" were how some players dubious connections were laughingly described

I was so proud to see the Irish team of the present day do so well up to know in the qualifiers, with what has to be the most successfull Irish team ever( really irish that is)

Look, Pablo, I'm NOT an apologist for the granny rule OR the Charlton era. I have probs with both. Be that as it may, I was merely trying to point out that people very quickly jump on board with the anthem thing and then forget about it if the player becomes successful. I wasn't attempting to defend Morrison/King/John Bull's ******* because they can't sing the anthem, merely suggesting that it, in itself, should NOT be a criteria for selection.

As for the Brit media, what can I say? They very conveniently overlooked the parental/granny rule that gave them Butcher/Dorigo/Salako/Barnes/any amount of others as it suited them. The Brit media? I couldn't give a toss about them. Why should we worry what they think?
As for the current Irish side, are you suggesting we should be extra proud because most of the players were born here? Paul McGrath and David O'Leary were sons of the diaspora, should we have ignored those? Sure they came 'home' early etc etc (before we go down that road!).

Personally, I'm proud of any Irish team - I'm not gonna be upset because of somebody's grandmother or Fleet Street/Wapping.

Finally, IMHO, any 'success' achieved in the Charlton era was undermined by nobody more than the man himself - he didn't have the courage to go the extra step and let them off the leash.

Gerry

**Pablo** · 28/07/2001, 3:13 PM

we all loved how Chaltons teams were sucessfull and the Morale of the nation was lifted. but The team of today is far more representative of the Irish people.
mention the names Aldridge, Cascarino, Houghton, Townsend- national heros all......Irish? hmmmmmm
The recent starting xi's have only Kilbane and Breen as players i would consider dubious.

all i'm saying is it got out of hand. hopefully it wont in the future. Irish or genuinely connected Irish player are surly the only way......

Gerry Desmond · 28/07/2001, 3:22 PM

...Yeah, agreed, Pablo!
Charlton was very astute - he always went for what he considered the finished article ahead of a player with potential, regardless of that potential. There were exceptions of course, he capped Roy Keane early enough and Staunton for instance. But he generally was happier 'shopping' in the English League for a player he could put straight in.
Worse than the senior team, however, were the youth and U21 sides were Maurice Setters 'Hibernicised' countless players simply to qualify them for the senior team while denying many home grown talents of a shot at the international scene.
And, yeah, the nation as a whole - following our wise and wonderful media - lapped it all up because it afforded them a few opportunities to revel in being 'Irish' on foreign soil.
Anyone writing a history of Irish football in 30 years time may take an alternative view of the Charlton years than is the popular one at present.
Gerry

**Pablo** · 28/07/2001, 3:26 PM

yeah
lets face it the football was dour and not in the least bit entertaining. Dunphy wasnt all wrong ya know......

Gerry Desmond · 28/07/2001, 3:41 PM

The man may be caracatured as the nation's bete noire, but he criticised Charlton - consistently and constructively - for denying the team reaching its full potential. He was lampooned for his beliefs. I agreed completely with him.
I personally believed the team peaked in 1992 and could have done extremely well had they qualified for the Euro finals in Sweden. Unfortunately, Dennis Wise's handball winner in Turkey was sufficient to see England through on goal difference and they subsequently bombed out when the competion got serious.
That 92 thing is the biggest disappointment I remember from that era. It may seem laughable now, but IMO Ireland stood a good chance of actually reaching the European Final itself had they made it to Scandinavia. Denmark went on to win it - it really could have been us. There was no great team there - perhaps the Dutch were the pick of the bunch, but they were fighting among themselves as usual - and we were stronger than ever and playing a bit of football. Yeah, it could have been us.
Gerry