Bertie's Money

**CollegeTillIDie** · 12/10/2006, 10:50 PM

The only real scandal in this case is that the Prime Minister of the REPUBLIC OF IRELAND does not support his local EL team but an ENGLISH F.A. PREMIERSHIP one.

Has it not occurred to anybody that if he were a Shelbourne supporter instead of a ManUre supporter he would never have been embroiled in this controversy?

**DmanDmythDledge** · 12/10/2006, 11:01 PM

Originally Posted by CollegeTillIDie

The only real scandal in this case is that the Prime Minister of the REPUBLIC OF IRELAND does not support his local EL team but an ENGLISH F.A. PREMIERSHIP one.

Has it not occurred to anybody that if he were a Shelbourne supporter instead of a ManUre supporter he would never have been embroiled in this controversy?

...no.

**Ringo** · 13/10/2006, 7:27 AM

i think he's always maintained he's a Drums fan. so he supports his local team

**BohsPartisan** · 13/10/2006, 7:47 AM

Thats a cop out.

**Macy** · 13/10/2006, 8:27 AM

Originally Posted by Ringo

i think he's always maintained he's a Drums fan. so he supports his local team

So he's up in Santry most weeks then? Biggest cop out ever...

Btw, 3 cheers to the Irish Electorate, truely insistant on getting the politicians they deserve.

**Dodge** · 13/10/2006, 8:34 AM

FF up 8 points according to latest poll. PDs up 1.

You've got to wonder about people sometimes...

**BohsPartisan** · 13/10/2006, 8:44 AM

Yeah but you've also got to wonder about polls. I've conducted them myself in the past and even the most scientific methods are far from foolproof.

**Student Mullet** · 13/10/2006, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by Ringo

i think he's always maintained he's a Drums fan. so he supports his local team

Drums played UCD in the Cup 2 years ago, their highest game in 33 years and Bertie was no where to be seen.

**drummerboy** · 13/10/2006, 11:36 AM

He was invited, but if my memory is correct he was out of the country on that date.

**BohsPartisan** · 13/10/2006, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by drummerboy

He was invited, but if my memory is correct he was out of the country on that date.

In Manchester?

**Macy** · 13/10/2006, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by drummerboy

He was invited

Invited? Wouldn't have thought a "big drums fan" would need to be invited.

**Ringo** · 15/10/2006, 7:14 AM

Originally Posted by Macy

So he's up in Santry most weeks then? Biggest cop out ever...

Btw, 3 cheers to the Irish Electorate, truely insistant on getting the politicians they deserve.

You obviously work for the Irish Times or are under the illusion that if people don't vote the way you want to there�s something wrong with them, the stupid little people. Enda Kenny is simply not a credible proposition as Taoiseach & the Rainbow coalition is not a credible alternative to the present government.

**BohsPartisan** · 15/10/2006, 1:17 PM

Originally Posted by Ringo

& the Rainbow coalition is not a credible alternative to the present government.

I don't know, Zippy, George, Bungle and Geoffrey could do a better job IMO.

**dahamsta** · 15/10/2006, 1:44 PM

Originally Posted by Ringo

You obviously [...] are under the illusion that if people don't vote the way you want to there’s something wrong with them, the stupid little people.

Well, there is something wrong with them: They voted for liars and thieves. Worse, a lot of them defend them when they get caught with their hand right there in the cookie jar, and believe them when the defense is transparent bullpoop, and arrogant bullpoop at that.

I wouldn't say they're stupid per se, but those particular people are hardly Mastermind contestants now are they?

adam

**Ringo** · 15/10/2006, 2:09 PM

Originally Posted by dahamsta

Well, there is something wrong with them: They voted for liars and thieves. Worse, a lot of them defend them when they get caught with their hand right there in the cookie jar, and believe them when the defense is transparent bullpoop, and arrogant bullpoop at that.

I wouldn't say they're stupid per se, but those particular people are hardly Mastermind contestants now are they?

adam

As with every profession , there are bad eggs on every side, not everyone invloved in the present goverment is corrupt or on the make. Fine gael & Labour were both in power & when they were, crime & the health service were , as always, major issues. Now they tell us they can sort it out. he people are being given two choices FF & the Pd's or FG & labour. Labour are refusing to go into power with FF (heard that one before

). So people have a limited choice. They can vote rainbow because they want them in or vote for change for the sake of change or stick with the present goverment. Most people polled obviously consider their better off with the present goverment and i still think that doesn't make the stupid or blind.

**BohsPartisan** · 15/10/2006, 2:54 PM

This poll means very little unless an election is called before xmas and that won't be the case. In fact FF in the last few years have always peaked in the polls at the start of the Dail and reached their nadir around the end. Also this poll does not put them up on their '02 election share of the vote, only on where they had been earlier in the year.

The last MRBI poll before the election in 2002 on May 13 had the following support figures:

FF 45.2
FG 20.6
LAB 11.6
SF 6.7
PD 2.0
GP 3.4
IND 10.6

The election on May 17 gave the following figures:

FF 41.5
FG 22.5
LAB 10.8
SF 6.5
PD 4.0
GP 3.8
IND 10.9

Party vote share and change from last poll of polls;

FF 37.2% (+0.9%)

FG 25.2% (no change)

Labour : 11.7% (-0.1%)

PDs : 4% (+0.2%)

Greens : 6.8 (+0.1%)

SF : 8.2% (-0.5%)

Independents and others : 7.3% (-0.5%).
Coalition options versus overall majority required.

FF/PD : 77 (8 short)
FG/Lab : 64 (21 short)
FF/Lab : 91 (overall majory of 16)
FG/Lab/Greens : 75 (10 short)
FF/PD/Greens : 87 (overall majority of Cool
FG/Lab/Greens/PDs : 81 (4 short)
FF/SF : 76 (9 short)

*Figures knicked from Politics.ie

**Macy** · 16/10/2006, 7:47 AM

Originally Posted by Ringo

not everyone invloved in the present goverment is corrupt or on the make.

Don't think anyone suggested they all were. Clearly the party leader was taking payments from businessmen, just like his mentor. What the whole party (with one exception), and the PD's are guilty of is turning a blind eye and allowing this corruption of politics to take place without censure - in fact they chose to actively support it.

The Irish electorate are at best gullible, at worst every bit as guilty of accepting corruption as FF. There must be an attitude of that "sure if I was there I'd do the same" which reflects extremely poorly on the nation as a whole imo. This can be seen by poll topping performances of those that have been found to be corrupt, and will no doubt be followed in Dublin Central whatever questions remain.

**pete** · 16/10/2006, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by Dodge

FF up 8 points according to latest poll. PDs up 1.

You've got to wonder about people sometimes...

26% of people apparently think bertie was right to accept the money. I know a lot of people said he was wrong but didn't change their vote but when 1/4 of the people think he was CORRECT you really have to wonder how fecked up this country is.

I have lower opinion of Bertie now due to the manner he dragged his family into this issue at every opportunity in attempt to hide behind them.

Its surprising the opposition getting hurt by in the polls as I thought Enda Kenny wisely didn't attack Bertie on this.

**Ringo** · 16/10/2006, 12:20 PM

The Irish Times doesn’t write the script for Ireland

TOM MCGURK

http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/st...046-qqqx=1.asp

Oh dear. As The Irish Times liberally hands out six of the best all round, I hope that this morning you all feel thoroughly ashamed of yourselves. As Yeats apparently was prone to say: ‘‘You have disgraced yourselves again.”

The Mahon Tribunal was, in the long run, aware of all these matters - and had all the surrounding and contextual information as well. Had Ahern been involved in corrupt practices, surely the tribunal would have been better placed to adjudicate than a newspaper in possession of an anonymous document later destroyed by the editor?

Indeed, the argument that citizen Kennedy subsequently gave to the tribunal - that she felt that Mahon wouldn’t even be reporting on this matter as grounds for her need to publish it - actually undermines her argument about publishing in the first place.