Bertie's Money

**Macy** · 02/10/2006, 7:28 AM

Originally Posted by Plastic Paddy

So what does that say about the calibre or probity of Irish politicians then?

The best money can buy?

**rebs23** · 02/10/2006, 2:58 PM

The most depressing thing about all of this is the 65% of people according to opinion polls that think he should stay on. We get the politicians we deserve and maybe we do deserve this idiot! Christ I really was hoping this would be the end of the Bertie (Please everyone and tell what they want to hear) Politics. Looks like he'll survive this and possibly get a few extra votes for the tearjerker performance on the telly. Depressing.

**pete** · 02/10/2006, 6:07 PM

I love the way Bertie friends in cabinet are coming out with the "I wouldn't take the money myself..but i have never been in such a poor personal state so I can't judge..."

He was earning big money when he took those gifts. I don't believe the poor-mouth excuses.

Its clear the government strategy (both FF & PD) will be to try & push this under the carpet tomorrow but I can't see the media or opposition letting it go. I think the focus has shifted from the 50k gift/loan as opposition seen to be harsh to be attacking him on matter occured during marraige breakup. I think the media will still be looking for answers on:

- if he had no bank account where was he putting his savings?
- admission he oppointed people to state boards because they friends
- why he felt it ok to accept cash in Manchester & not see as donation. eas this a regular occurence?

**Student Mullet** · 02/10/2006, 6:19 PM

Originally Posted by pete

I think the media will still be looking for answers on:

- if he had no bank account where was he putting his savings?
- admission he oppointed people to state boards because they friends
- why he felt it ok to accept cash in Manchester & not see as donation. eas this a regular occurence?

I think these are probably the three weakest points of attack.
- Who cares what type of bank accounts he used.
- The media can & will attack him here but not the opposition because they've done the same.
- It's obviously not a regular occurance as he owned up to it himself as the only other money he's received that he can't properly account for.

If I was in the opposition I would be searching for a tax law or precendent that could get him in trouble. Failing that, an ethics code or law. People aren't going to turn against Bertie en masse because he used a joint bank account but if he has a piece if illegality pinned on him he'll have to go.

**pete** · 02/10/2006, 6:23 PM

Originally Posted by Student Mullet

- Who cares what type of bank accounts he used.

Are you suggesting its ok to mix personal, party & policital donations, gifts and loans in the one bank account? Maybe he was writting cheques for personal use out of his campaign account? Adding the fact he apparently has no records for 5 years at that time seems fishy to me...

**Student Mullet** · 02/10/2006, 6:28 PM

Originally Posted by pete

Are you suggesting its ok to mix personal, party & policital donations, gifts and loans in the one bank account? Maybe he was writting cheques for personal use out of his campaign account? Adding the fact he apparently has no records for 5 years at that time seems fishy to me...

And maybe he's the flying spaghetti monster. We have no evidance of either.

If the opposition can pin onto him a wrongdoing like the one you suggest then they'll have done their job. If Pat Rabbitt again finds it amazing that the Minister of Finance didn't have a personal bank account he'll just have generated more hot air.

**Macy** · 03/10/2006, 7:21 AM

Student Mullet, he did do wrong - taking the money off business men while Minister of Finance is morally wrong. The sums have to be put in the context of the time, and they were huge amounts of money. Chosing to hide behind Miriam's apron strings at every given opportunity (even at the ladies bogball final on Sunday) shows the real character of the "man" and what kind of act he really put on on 6 one.

rebs23 - we have the least sophisticated electorate in Europe. Nothing would surprise me when it comes to the Irish electorate anymore.

**BohsPartisan** · 03/10/2006, 8:07 AM

Originally Posted by Student Mullet

And maybe he's the flying spaghetti monster. We have no evidance of either.

.

What about the trail of Bolognaise sauce that he leaves after him everywhere he goes?

**Student Mullet** · 03/10/2006, 3:04 PM

Originally Posted by Macy

Student Mullet, he did do wrong - taking the money off business men while Minister of Finance is morally wrong. The sums have to be put in the context of the time, and they were huge amounts of money. Chosing to hide behind Miriam's apron strings at every given opportunity (even at the ladies bogball final on Sunday) shows the real character of the "man" and what kind of act he really put on on 6 one.

rebs23 - we have the least sophisticated electorate in Europe. Nothing would surprise me when it comes to the Irish electorate anymore.

OK, that's a fair opinion for you to hold but I don't agree with you. I'll turn against Bertie if he's broken a law, all I see against him at the moment is innuendo.

**Macy** · 03/10/2006, 3:12 PM

Originally Posted by Student Mullet

I'll turn against Bertie if he's broken a law

Pleased to see morals and ethics still held in such high regard by voters!

**Student Mullet** · 03/10/2006, 3:19 PM

Originally Posted by Macy

Pleased to see morals and ethics still held in such high regard by voters!

Glad to hear it but you're making a judgement of me there Macy which I don't apreciate. Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean that I have no sence of morality.
My morals include the concept of 'innocent untill proven guilty'. I've seen all the different charges laid against him and I don't see that he has acted immoraly or unethically.

**dahamsta** · 03/10/2006, 3:28 PM

I have to back Macy on this one Student Mullet, I took your statement in exactly the same way he did. But let's not beat around the bush: if it's proven that he did take the money, even if it wasn't actually against the law, do you think that's ok?

adam

**dahamsta** · 03/10/2006, 3:30 PM

BTW, I have to say that the mutterings coming from the opposition on this are sickening. It's make anything think they didn't want an investigation for some reason...

**Student Mullet** · 03/10/2006, 3:34 PM

Originally Posted by dahamsta

I have to back Macy on this one Student Mullet, I took your statement in exactly the same way he did. But let's not beat around the bush: if it's proven that he did take the money, even if it wasn't actually against the law, do you think that's ok?

adam

I don't see the need for proof since he's admitted to receiving the money. And yes, I think it was OK to take it.

**pete** · 03/10/2006, 3:44 PM

In the end i suppose bad morals will not be a hanging offence for Bertie although breaking a law will almost certainly.

I don't understand the whole Manchester thing anyway. We know he accepted the money. I think we know no actual law against it? We can probably agree poor morals to accept a gift from business people for personal use when Minister for Finance.

We are all biased anyway & have already made our minds up.

**dahamsta** · 03/10/2006, 3:54 PM

"I didn't have a bank account." --Bertie Ahern, while Minister for Finance

ROFL

**blobbyblob** · 03/10/2006, 3:57 PM

Originally Posted by dahamsta

"I didn't have a bank account." --Bertie Ahern

ROFL

Unbelievable - Let the election begin

**pete** · 03/10/2006, 4:32 PM

�As I survey the events of the last two weeks, I realise that my judgment in accepting help from good and loyal friends and the gift in Manchester (albeit in the context of personal and family circumstances) was an error. It was a misjudgment, although not in breach of any law or code of conduct at the time.�

No tax payable on donations

Ahern clearly an inept Minister for Finance if no tax was payable on gifts and loans when he was in charge. Maybe its just me but I find it amazing that Bertie can be paid under the cover of a loan/gift for pesonal work in Manchester. Sure every politicians will use this excuse for bribes (i am not suggesting Ahern was bribed) they received. "Ah sure t'was only a gift..."