Brady takes aim at Chelsea (A Face, unfinished business here)

**Poor Student** · 18/09/2006, 3:42 PM

Which mod is WUMing? Use the report button and bring it to our attention.

**Billsthoughts** · 18/09/2006, 4:07 PM

Originally Posted by Karlos

You show a distinct lack of knowledge on what 'youth development' actually involves and you cover it up with some veiled attacks on me. Pathetic in the extreme and I won't stoop to that level.

I'm just glad coaches in this country still get up in the morning despite the idiotic views that their hours of dedicated training amounts to nothing more than the value of a BBC programme.

You are the one who continually refers to your own "qualifications" on this subject so it hardly amounts to a personal attack if I criticise you for doing so.
Again you are dancing round the issues cause everyone has proved you wrong.
When someone points out the obvious i.e. that brady as head of youth development at arsenal has failed to provide any young players for arsenal ,you skirt around the issue by trying to imply that you have some greater understanding of what constiutes "youth development" than anyone else. Are you implying Arsenal, so overburdened by their own sense of altruism set up their academy in order to provide other clubs with players ? Football Clubs arent renowned for doing anything that isnt motivated by self interest. Maybe you should take the course again as a lot of it seemed to have gone over your head.

**NeilMcD** · 18/09/2006, 4:07 PM

Originally Posted by Billsthoughts

when you get on your " as someone who knows youth development...." horse it always makes me smile....
wow you did a course. congratulations. nothing nobody else could have gathered from watching a couple of BBC documentaries.
get over it. A clubs objectives are different from a football associations objectives when it comes to developing talent.
its self evident to anyone looking at it that brady is a failure at developing youth at arsenal no matter what way you try and spin it. what did you do your course in? Public Relations?
West Ham was mentioned earlier as a club that pushes youth development.
Man U at least gave a lot of players a chance to prove themselves in the first team. Arsenal never do. In yesterdays game they had fletcher, o shea, scholes that came from inside the club. who did arsenal have?
God help the future of football in this country if it is in the hands of such self righteous people as your good self.

If you are of the view that coaching courses and badges are the same as watching a few BBC documentaries, well then the mind boggles. I for one would rather the future of football was in the hands of someone who involves themselves in coaching like karlos does and regularly attends coaching courses and football matches and has a clear love for the game rather than a hurler on the ditch.

**Billsthoughts** · 18/09/2006, 4:13 PM

That isnt what I was saying. What I was saying is I have never heard anything new from him that wasnt in a couple of documentaries on the BBC not long ago on the development of football. He goes on as if he is privvy to info that noone else is when the reality is that all this info has been in the public domain for a long time. I have no problem with people doing whatever courses they want but if they are going to use the fact that they have in order to dismiss anybody elses with a contary opinion ;thats when I do have a problem with it.

**NeilMcD** · 18/09/2006, 4:16 PM

I dont think Karlos did that. He has an opinion and backs it up with first hand information. Surely the nature of any good debate is to use the information at your disposal. I have had debates with Karlos on many issues and I never felt he was speaking down to me but he was using information at his disposal.

**Billsthoughts** · 18/09/2006, 4:22 PM

I have no idea what you are talking about. You seem to have turned this into another all about neil thread.good luck with that.
I will simplify it for you.
It was said that Brady was a failure as head of youth development at arsenal.
Karlos countered this by saying he has produced a lot of players that now have a career in football outside of arsenal and (hilariously so) claimed they brought in a lot of players as part of some "develop to win" stratagy thus implying that they wouldnt have been the players they are unless they had come under Bradys wing. went this was pointed out as complete ****e he implied that anyone who thinks otherwise to him doesnt know about youth development. He does cause he done a course.
did he mention he done a course by the way????

**NeilMcD** · 18/09/2006, 5:07 PM

The point I am making is that he did not say or imply that other people dont know about youth development. He was arguing his point and backing up with his take on things and his experience of doing a course etc. You made a cheep dig about BBC documentary.

**John83** · 18/09/2006, 5:56 PM

Much as I hate to break the flow of the delightful argument, I'll repeat several people's question:
How did Brady fail his country, A Face?

**Poor Student** · 18/09/2006, 6:08 PM

Originally Posted by John83

How did Brady fail his country, A Face?

I'm wondering too.

Bill, Neil, Karlos, you have differing views on youth development. We get it. It's getting too personal now. Drop it.

**bennocelt** · 18/09/2006, 8:00 PM

Originally Posted by Karlos

You obviously don't work in youth development football in Ireland so.....

oh yeah how many young irish fellas have came up then through the ranks of arsenal youth................wasnt brady the last one!

**Marked Man** · 18/09/2006, 8:37 PM

[QUOTE=Poor Student;537597]
Which mod is WUMing? Use the report button and bring it to our attention.

It's only a question. Best interpretation I can put on A Face's claim that Brady failed his country.

**Karlos** · 18/09/2006, 8:57 PM

Originally Posted by Billsthoughts

Karlos countered this by saying he has produced a lot of players that now have a career in football outside of arsenal and (hilariously so) claimed they brought in a lot of players as part of some "develop to win" stratagy thus implying that they wouldnt have been the players they are unless they had come under Bradys wing.

Originally Posted by Billsthoughts

.What I was saying is I have never heard anything new from him that wasnt in a couple of documentaries on the BBC not long ago on the development of football.

Strategy!! No.....it's actually a commonly known phase in the development of young football players. They must have skipped discussing the phases of development and the associated psychology through the 'development to win' phase of youth development football on that bbc programme eh....

Hilariously (as you described it), I brought some actual facts on youth development into the debate and they were shot down and attacked! In fact in some ways I was rightly shot down as really I should have based my argument on Brady & Banfield's work in both the 'training to compete' and 'training to win' phases of development.

Their work throughout these phases of development has particualry been magnificent, in my humble little opinion. These phases are universally accepted as being critical in moulding a tactically astute and sustained performer such as Cesc Fabregas who arrived at the club during Phase 3 of his development.

I think it's naiive in the extreme to assume players are complete at 15 years or age. When it comes to professional football, I believe research shows that the last years of development are as crucial as the first.

Phase 1 - The FUNdamental Phase
Age: Males 6 to 9 / Females 6 to 8 years
The main objective of this phase is to learn all the fundamental movement skills using a well-structured, positive and fun approach. Soccer skills should be introduced, with an emphasis on fun, skill development and small sided games. Appropriate and correct running, jumping and throwing techniques are taught using the ABC's of athletics. Participation in as many sports as possible is encouraged. The development of these fundamental movement skills will contribute significantly to future at achievements.

Phase 2 - The Learning to Train Phase
Age: Males 9 to 12 / Females 8 to 11 years
The main objective of this phase is to learn the specific soccer skills in conjunction with FUNdamental skills from a range of other sports. These skills form the cornerstone of all player development. An emphasis on technical development should be a key part of this phase, with the 7 v 7 game being introduced, progressing to 9 v 9.

Phase 3 - The Training to Train Phase
Age: Males 12 to 16 / Females 11 to 15 Years
The main objective of this phase is to consolidate basic soccer skills, introduce the basic elements of tactics and to address the two critical periods of physical development namely the aerobic base and strength of players. It should be noted that both aerobic and strength trainability is dependent on maturation levels and not solely chronological age.

Phase 4 - The Training to Compete Phase
Age: Males 16 to 18 / Females 15 to 17 years
The main objective of this phase is to optimise fitness preparation and soccer, individual and position-specific skills as well as performance. More advanced tactical elements of the game are introduced. During this phase, high intensity individual, and position-specific training is provided to players. Soccer specific skills are performed under a variety of competitive conditions during training. Special emphasis is placed on optimum preparation by modelling training and competition.

Phase 5 - The Training to Win Phase
Age: Males 18yrs and older / Females 17 yrs and older
This final phase of player preparation aims to maximise fitness preparation and soccer, individual and position-specific skills as well as performance. All of the player's capacities are now fully established and players are trained to peak for major competitions. Training is characterised by high intensity and relatively high volume with frequent periods of rest.

Phase 6 - The Retainment Phase
This phase refers to the activities performed after a player has retired from competition permanently. The aim of this phase is to retain players for coaching, sport administration, officiating or recreational participation in the game. For semi professional and professional players this phase will include career planning and transition

Originally Posted by Billsthoughts

.Again you are dancing round the issues cause everyone has proved you wrong..

I'm out on this one, I foolishly thought there could have been an interesting debate on youth development on foot.ie. and apologise to everyone else if it's got bogged down. I wanted to drop it a page back but based on the crap that has been written about me since my last post on the thread I felt I deserved the right to reply despite having so obviously been proven wrong.

I'll stay well clear in future

**geysir** · 18/09/2006, 9:36 PM

FWIW, here's a link to an article about a Brady/Howe evening coaching seminar held at Liberty Hall some years ago.
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independe...&issue_id=5404

**bennocelt** · 18/09/2006, 10:49 PM

for fecks sake man.......................
remind me again of the great coaching ability of brady.when he was with celtic!
and all those badges did a feck lot of good when kerr had them!

oh by the way, i have a few too
but you dont hear me going on about it!

**Thomo** · 19/09/2006, 2:40 AM

ok a few things...

Arsenal are being criticised here for not developing talent and raiding other clubs young talents? so because arsenal have a superb scouting system, that means they can't develop players? correct me if i'm wrong but the word 'development' implies taking the unfinished article and attempting to encourage that talent to develop to its full potential, in which case the nationality of the player should surely be irrelevant. Just because arsenal are able to use an international, wide reaching, intricate scouting system to regularly bring in players they feel they can 'develop' into first team regulars, or useful additions to the squad, in what way is this not a youth development system?

Also, how has brady failed the country?

**Billsthoughts** · 19/09/2006, 7:58 AM

God its like some david brent seminar round here.....

"Phase 5 - The Training to Win Phase
Age: Males 18yrs and older / Females 17 yrs and older
This final phase of player preparation aims to maximise fitness preparation and soccer, individual and position-specific skills as well as performance. All of the player's capacities are now fully established and players are trained to peak for major competitions. Training is characterised by high intensity and relatively high volume with frequent periods of rest."

correct me if I am wrong here but this sounds like Brady just tweaks their fitness levels to take in a season? Also good to hear arsenal are working on their "soccer" at this age.

**geysir** · 19/09/2006, 8:31 AM

Originally Posted by bennocelt

for fecks sake man.......................
remind me again of the great coaching ability of brady.when he was with celtic!
and all those badges did a feck lot of good when kerr had them!

oh by the way, i have a few too
but you dont hear me going on about it!

Well Bennocelt now we have heard you go on about it. If you didn't find them at the bottom of a cornflakes box then maybe you can enlighten us as to Brady's coaching ability at Celtic? In what way did his shortcomings as a coach affect the team that he managed?

This thread wasn't about Brady and his coaching job.
As I say hasn't offered one word to back up his hysterical claim that Brady has failed Irish football. He has done this before, post some juvenile tripe about Brady,then not return to back up his statement. A hit and run poster.
Brady is one of probably 4 Irish footballers who could have walked into almost any class team in the world, an absolute favourite of football fans wherever he played right down to his last game at the end of his career.

**Karlos** · 19/09/2006, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by Billsthoughts

God its like some david brent seminar round here.....

"Phase 5 - The Training to Win Phase
Age: Males 18yrs and older / Females 17 yrs and older
This final phase of player preparation aims to maximise fitness preparation and soccer, individual and position-specific skills as well as performance. All of the player's capacities are now fully established and players are trained to peak for major competitions. Training is characterised by high intensity and relatively high volume with frequent periods of rest."

correct me if I am wrong here but this sounds like Brady just tweaks their fitness levels to take in a season? Also good to hear arsenal are working on their "soccer" at this age.

I'm not debating this anymore as I said. You can continue your snide comments on it if you want but I won't be discussing them.

An overview of the development framework was posted. Find a BBC programme which deals with it, if you want further enlightenment.

**Billsthoughts** · 19/09/2006, 12:05 PM

You havent said or posted anything to change my mind.
In fact your post just backs up what I said.
"Phase 5 - The Training to Win Phase
Age: Males 18yrs and older / Females 17 yrs and older
This final phase of player preparation aims to maximise fitness preparation and soccer, individual and position-specific skills as well as performance. All of the player's capacities are now fully established and players are trained to peak for major competitions. Training is characterised by high intensity and relatively high volume with frequent periods of rest."
Hardly having a massive influence on a players development here. Arsenal poached other clubs talented players and then in the "crucial" training to win phase just trained them to be fit for a season of top level football. Brady is in no position to be pointing the finger at other clubs when his own club behaves dubiously at best and in the case of the infamous battles of old trafford absolutely disgracefully.