Did they get the ball out of the stadium ?

[wallis]

We are straying off the point here on this thread but my problem with them standing up was this :

There were 4 or 5 of them , and about 300 hundred behind them. Them standing up was covering up half the pitch. Its all very well saying that if you stand up you can see but thats not the case. I could see because I am above average height, however , a 12 year old kid cant see anything when they stand up behind this bunch.

Also, a guy who is in his fifties or older doesnt want to spend two hours stood up. That doesnt stop him singing his heart when required, or 'standing up for the boys in green'

All these fans had to do was show some respect to their other supporters and let them enjoy the game as well. Not have full scale shouting matches at fans seven rows back and slagging them off just because they would not stand up.

[Superhoops]

I disagree utterly and fundamentally. I was standing up for the whole game and refused to sit down for people behind me. Their only argument was "We paid for this seat". That's ****** - they paid to watch the match, and they could still see it.

It might be ****** to you, but buying a ticket did actually entitle you to a seat. Only by standing up when they clearly did not want to.

It's unfortunate - and utterly stupid - that separate standing sections aren't allowed

Wouldn't disagree with this, but currently the regulations say there not. At least if you are going into a standing section you know what to expect. Most people would not want to bring kids onto standng terraces, nor would elderly people generally want to watch a game from the terraces.

but we're going to have to work on that (preferably through the Croker section)

As long as they keep it separate and people know that if they go into that section they are not likely to be able to use their seat to see the game

For the record, I offered to switch seats with them so I wouldn't be in front of them; they refused.

Would they have been any better off particularly if as you say the majority of the Irish fans in Stuttgart wanted to stand up and make as much noise as possible.

I also question your comment that "the majority of Irish fans...just want to watch the game." From what I could see and hear, the majority of the Irish fans in Stuttgart wanted to stand up and make as much noise as possible.

In the section I (and Wallis) were in, there were as many Irish, if not more, than Germans and most were perfectly content to sit down and make as much noise as possible, apart from the handful of ar*eholes referred to earlier in this thread.

You can look at how quickly "Stand up for the Boys in Green" takes off every time it's started. Those who urge everyone to sit down are in the minority.

As someone else has pointed out, no problem with this when it happens in a quiet part of the game or during a stoppage, as it takes about a minute to sing four verses of the most mindless song ever, a song which originated at English league grounds. As for those urging people to sit down being in the minority, that has not been my experience.

You can not create the same atmosphere sitting down. That's not a scientifically proven fact, but it's as near as dammit. People who sit down end up, as Ronnie noted, acting almost as if they were watching on the telly.

How many times at Lansdowne at friendlies where a signficant proportion of the crowd were standing did this atmosphere manifest itself?

You get the same atmosphere we had in Cyprus - dead because everyone was sitting down.

Nothing to do with the crowd sitting down, it was to do with the team playing sh**e.

Compare that to Paris and Stuttgart, where everyone was standing up.

Not everyone! Don't exagerate.

Compare again to the English Premiership, where sitting is strictly enforced. Compare again to the big eL games, where you have the larger crowds and where many people stand up.

You're not seriously suggesting there is better atmosphere at EL games than at the English Premiership?

People, like yourself it seems, who think people who stand up and create an atmosphere are an embarrassment are the real embarrassment. If you want to watch a football match sitting down, go to the pub or your sitting room. These people invariably bring nothing to the atmopshere, nothing to the game and nothing to the team.

I am sure that I would not be alone in thinking that is the greatest load of patronising shi*e I have ever heard. How the f**k do you know what I or anyone else who wants to sit down to watch a match brings to the atmosphere, the game or the team.

Modern all-seater stadia are designed to (a) avoid running terrace battles and (b) make enforcing capacities a lot easier. It was a knee-jerk reaction to incidents such as Hillsborough, Heysel, etc. There were far better ways of overcoming the problems that led to those tragic events.

They were also built to make them less hostile places and more attractive to a wider range of audience and to ensure that paying customers had a proper view of the game, hence the reason for cantaliever stands and reduced capacities.

I think this sums up your attitude

I can sum it up for myself - It does not need a certain section of so-called fans to behave like louts and spoil the enjoyment of others to create an atmosphere at a game.

[Armando]

I disagree utterly and fundamentally. I was standing up for the whole game and refused to sit down for people behind me. Their only argument was "We paid for this seat". That's ****** - they paid to watch the match, and they could still see it. It's unfortunate - and utterly stupid - that separate standing sections aren't allowed, but we're going to have to work on that (preferably through the Croker section). For the record, I offered to switch seats with them so I wouldn't be in front of them; they refused.

I also question your comment that "the majority of Irish fans...just want to watch the game." From what I could see and hear, the majority of the Irish fans in Stuttgart wanted to stand up and make as much noise as possible. You can look at how quickly "Stand up for the Boys in Green" takes off every time it's started. Those who urge everyone to sit down are in the minority. The stewards would have told these people to stand up and stop complaining. Exactly as the stewards in Paris did.

You can not create the same atmosphere sitting down. That's not a scientifically proven fact, but it's as near as dammit. People who sit down end up, as Ronnie noted, acting almost as if they were watching on the telly. You get the same atmosphere we had in Cyprus - dead because everyone was sitting down. Compare that to Paris and Stuttgart, where everyone was standing up. Compare again to the English Premiership, where sitting is strictly enforced. Compare again to the big eL games, where you have the larger crowds and where many people stand up. Compare again to the Bundesliga and Serie A, which are generally said to have the best atmospheres at games in Europe and at which separate terracing and seating areas are in place. That's not a coincidence.

People, like yourself it seems, who think people who stand up and create an atmosphere are an embarrassment are the real embarrassment. If you want to watch a football match sitting down, go to the pub or your sitting room. These people invariably bring nothing to the atmopshere, nothing to the game and nothing to the team. It's typical of an Irish culture where we think watching games means going to the pub every Ford Sunday Soccer Special.

Modern all-seater stadia are designed to (a) avoid running terrace battles and (b) make enforcing capacities a lot easier. It was a knee-jerk reaction to incidents such as Hillsborough, Heysel, etc. There were far better ways of overcoming the problems that led to those tragic events.

I think this sums up your attitude -


So an area to try and recreate the atmospheres of Paris and Stuttgart should be forgotten? Superb.

Excellent post. I agree with every point made.

[Norman]

I met the lads with the ball on way to Ubahn after the match, they hid it in one of their leprechaun hats to get it out of stadium.

[grounded]

and did they get it out?

[pineapple stu]

Superhoops - you're talking nonsense. I'm not going to dissect your post - you basically disagree with me without any sort of back-up - but a couple of points I would like to make...

1) The majority of Irish fans evidently did want to stand. We know that because the majority did stand for quite a lot, as has happened in other grounds too (Paris, Tórhsavn, etc). You're heavily outvoted on this thread as well, which contains a lot of people who were in Stuttgart.

2) The atmosphere in Cyprus wasn't dead because we were sh!te (although it helped). It died precisely at kick-off when everyone sat down. It was rocking before then, and died a death immediately at kick-off. We scored within five minutes - should have been an impetus, but it wasn't.

3) Don't even try to compare friendlies to competitive games.

4) I know quite well what people who want to sit bring to the atmosphere at games. I've been to quite a lot of football games. I've sat at some of them. People who sit invariably don't contribute to the atmosphere. Again, everyone else here seems to be in agreement bar you.

5) Yes, I would suggest that at the bigger eL games, there is a better atmosphere than in the Premiership. Look at Derry away to Gretna - every single Scot, be they Motherwell fan, Gretna fan or neutral - commented on the Derry fans. (SPL atmosphere is similar to EPL). And not just in passing - went out of their way to note how superb they were. Look at games like the title deciders, the big games, the derbies. Then look at games like Liverpool's CL games at Anfield recently. A free is lined up on the edge of the box, and you can't hear a thing around the ground.

When eL games bring in the numbers to get a good atmosphere going, it almost always beats anything across the water. This despite the Premiership always bringing in the requisite numbers.

[grounded]

ok read through the last post again and obviously they did, sorry

[Collyontour]

The vast majority of Irish fans who travel to the away games always want to stand and sing. Everyone who had seats near me were standing on Saturday and I find that the atmosphere at Landsdowne is affected negatively by the sit-down brigade.

[crc]

I love standing at football games, it does create a better atmosphere. BUT, if everyone else around me is sitting down, I'll sit down too.
Just because modern (all-seated) stadia don't provide dedicated terraces, doesn't mean that some people don't have a right to sit down at football games if they so chose. For God's sake, do none of you have dad's, grandad's or young kids who want to go to football games?? Standing up is the best way to watch a football match but some people cannot stand up for a whole game!

In all-seater stadiums, the generally accepted practice is that
a) if you have a ticket for behind the goals - you can expect to (have to) stand for the whole match, or
b) if you have a ticket for the sidelines - you can expect not to have to stand for the whole match.

The people in the situation described above were level with the 18-yard line, so IMO they could reasonably have expected to see the whole game sitting down. The guys who stood up in front of them (and subsequently shouted abuse at them) were jerks.

[Cowboy]

I stood throughout the game but I do respect others right to sit but as mentioned earlier if the ten rows in front of you are standing theres not much choice if you want to see the game. Stu I'm not certain that the majority do want to stand for this reason and those who mentioed kids and older people have a fair point. Shouting abuse is definitely out of order and does not sit well with "the best fans in the world" label.

[hoops1]

'Irish fans the best fans in the world my arse'
No regard for there own supporters
With a fcuk everyone else im standing attitude
What about old people,young kids, women, people of poor health?
Im all for standing but if im in a part of the ground that effects people
that want to sit I sit to.
It sounds like there was a good few who could hold there drink

[NeilMcD]

'Irish fans the best fans in the world my arse'
No regard for there own supporters
With a fcuk everyone else im standing attitude
What about old people,young kids, women, people of poor health?
Im all for standing but if im in a part of the ground that effects people
that want to sit I sit to.
It sounds like there was a good few who could hold there drink

Good post hoops I agree with you there. I love standing and singing and always try to get a seat in an area like that. I love Paris for that reason and Amsterdam and I was able to Stand in Stuttgart as everybody around us was standing and singing. However if you are with people who have kids or elderly people around them you have to change your behvaviour. I agree with Pineapples comments and I thought Cyprus was a joke for atmosphere. I think people have to respect other peoples right to watch a game but in an ideal world the people who wanna stand and sing would not be beside those who wanna sit. Role on singing section in croke park

[Chippy]

Firstly, yes I did get it out of the ground (stuffed inside a large tricolour so it only looked like i was bringing out a flag), so i didn't meet Norman with the ball in a leprachaun hat as he claims.
Secondly regarding the standing for which I can only speak for myself & not the lads around me. We do try to stand at matches, as we believe it does contribute to a better atmosphere. There are plenty of contributors to this site who both agree with & disagree with this point of view. We specifically bought seats in this section because it was directly beside the official FAI allocation & would make standing easier. In my view if you want to watch a match from the comfort of a seat, stay in your sitting room & watch it on the tele.
However, I take exception to the allegation that we were a bunch of foul-mouthed drunken yobs. We had plenty of drink taken, which judging by the size of the crowd in the Sclotzplatz wearing green all day on Saturday, was no different to most other fans. Spirits were high but at no-stage did I verbally abuse any other supporters. I certainly encouraged those around us to stand & jumped up at every opportunity the Fields of athenry or stand up for the boys in Green gave me. I did exchange words with a guy a about 4 rows back from but believe me, he instigated that little episode with his abuse. This was heat of the moment stuff & I felt that if I had paid a lot of money to go and support my team, I could do it standing if I wanted.
At half time, when I turned around, there was a guy, maybe in his fifties sitting directly behind me. This changed my attitude to standing slightly & as best I could I restricted my standing to when the rest of the crowd were singing/standing. There were times however that you just get an urge to jump out of your seat to have a go at the ref / near miss / bad tackle etc.
I'm really fuming writing this. Anyone who knows us knows that we are committed, passionate fans but not abusive. We are being painted as a bunch of foul-mouthed yobs. The vast majority of the abuse was coming in our direction especially from that gentleman about 4 rows behind me.
This is football & I put it down to that. I can't believe all this non-sense that has been written by some of the contributors to this thread.
And the ball is at home in my sitting-room !!!!!

[hoops1]

In my view if you want to watch a match from the comfort of a seat, stay in your sitting room & watch it on the tele.

Why? the man or woman who wants to go to watch the match and sit in there seat not singing is everybit as much a supporter as the person standing singing.
If a person buys a seat theyre entitled to sit in it and watch the game and
not be dictated to by the fella that wants to stand.
Grounds in Britain are strict on this and it was just bad stewarding that let
those fans stand.

[Chippy]

Why? the man or woman who wants to go to watch the match and sit in there seat not singing is everybit as much a supporter as the person standing singing.

Of course the man or woman who wants to go to watch a match sitting in their seat is everybit as much a supporter as the person standing singing. I never said that I or people who like to stand are better supporters than anyone else. If I implied that I apologise but I think you're just looking for an arguement

If a person buys a seat theyre entitled to sit in it and watch the game and
not be dictated to by the fella that wants to stand.

Conversely, if a person buys a seat, they're entitled to stand in front of it & watch the game and not be dictated to by a load of foul-mouthed abuse from the fella behind him.

[Poor Student]

Just to clarify something, are the rules being breached if people stand in a seated area? Didn't Man Utd. receive a stern warning about this?

As for the posters talking about this hammered girl sitting on her fella's lap and not having a clue. Two lads beside me slept through large chunks of the match. I know there's also good craic surrounding a trip which does not involve the football match, but what's the point in coming to drink all day and sleep during the event?

[wallis]

For the record, I will sit , stand , do whatever the majority are doing. In my experience the 'cheap seats' behind the goals are normally where the main action goes on. Those buying tickets to the sides of grounds tend to be more family or age orientated who prefer to sit and enjoy the atmosphere.

Chippy , unfortunately the thread has moved on to a standing v sitting argument but Im glad to hear you got the ball. The security guys faces were priceless when they were trying to find it.

Nice job.

[Superhoops]

Football, like anything else is all about opinion. You have yours and I have mine!

Superhoops - you're talking nonsense. I'm not going to dissect your post - you basically disagree with me without any sort of back-up - but a couple of points I would like to make...

1) The majority of Irish fans evidently did want to stand. We know that because the majority did stand for quite a lot, as has happened in other grounds too (Paris, Tórhsavn, etc). You're heavily outvoted on this thread as well, which contains a lot of people who were in Stuttgart.
Even if they did, is this justification for them spoiling it for those than didn't?

2) The atmosphere in Cyprus wasn't dead because we were sh!te (although it helped). It died precisely at kick-off when everyone sat down. It was rocking before then, and died a death immediately at kick-off. We scored within five minutes - should have been an impetus, but it wasn't.
Where were all this 'majority' you refer to above then in Cyprus? Or was it only the killjoys/the sitters down who went to Cyprus? I remember reading several postings on here from those who are advocating standing up here and who were in Cyprus

3) Don't even try to compare friendlies to competitive games.
What about the competitive games at Lansdowne Road then? Great atmosphere at Holland home in Sept. 2001, don't remember it being so great a month later at home to Cyprus, dont remember it being great against Albania/Georgia in back to back home games in June 2003. Don't remember it being great at home to the Faroes in October 2004 or against Switzerland in October 2005. Remember it being good against Brazil in February 2004 and against Sweden in March this year. Where's the consistency? What's that got to do with standing up or sitting down? Nothing

4) I know quite well what people who want to sit bring to the atmosphere at games. I've been to quite a lot of football games. I've sat at some of them. People who sit invariably don't contribute to the atmosphere. Again, everyone else here seems to be in agreement bar you.
Utter nonsense. Look at football games in places like the Millenium Stadium for example, where you if you continue standing you are likely to be thrown out. Look at other sports at all seater stadia, Twickenham or the Telstra Dome and then tell me that seated fans dont contibute to atmosphere.

5) Yes, I would suggest that at the bigger eL games, there is a better atmosphere than in the Premiership.Probably half a dozen games a year in the EL, you mention them yourself below. Doesnt compare though to the likes of Man.City v Man.U, Everton V Liverpool, Tottenham V Arsenal. Suggest most people who have actually attended any of these would agree.
Look at Derry away to Gretna (not a very good example of a bigger EL game????)- every single Scot, be they Motherwell fan, Gretna fan or neutral - commented on the Derry fans. (SPL atmosphere is similar to EPL). And not just in passing - went out of their way to note how superb they were. Look at games like the title deciders, the big games, the derbies. Then look at games like Liverpool's CL games at Anfield recently. A free is lined up on the edge of the box, and you can't hear a thing around the ground.

When eL games bring in the numbers to get a good atmosphere going and that's not too often, it almost always beats anything across the water.That's your opinion, it is not mine and I would suggest anyone who has attended both would agree with me This despite the Premiership always bringing in the requisite numbers.

[Superhoops]

Just to clarify something, are the rules being breached if people stand in a seated area? Didn't Man Utd. receive a stern warning about this?

In the UK, the local authority in which the grounds/stadium is situated is generally responsible for making sure safety regulations are complied with inside the ground. The Police are responsible for ensuring public order outside the ground. The football club is responsible for minimising nuisance, the safe condition of the building and the safe management of spectators at the event.

The local authority who are required to grant safety certificates to grounds are required to run a safety advisory group to monitor safety at football grounds/ stadia. These groups include all other agencies involved in ensuring safety at football matches, such as the police, fire and ambulance services.

Local authorities are themselves monitored by the Government's Football Licensing Authority to ensure that they are discharging their safety duties properly.

Usually the basis for issuing safety certificates is that the club can demonstrate it can its own Ground Regulations. The Ground Regulations appear to be standard at most English League and non-league grounds and also appear to need the approval of the FA, the Premier League or the Football League.

Here is an extract from Everton's Ground Regulations:

5. All persons entering the Ground must pay for admission or hold a valid match ticket. Persons issued with a ticket for a specific seat must occupy that seat unless instructed otherwise by a steward, or Police Officer. PERSISTENT STANDING IN SEATED AREAS WHILST PLAY IS IN PROGRESS IS STRICTLY FORBIDDEN AND COULD RESULT IN EJECTION FROM THE GROUND, WHICH MAY LEAD TO POSSIBLE FURTHER ACTION BY THE CLUB INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE WITHDRAWAL OF ANY SEASON TICKET (WITHOUT REIMBURSEMENT) AND OTHER BENEFITS.

The capitalisation is Eveton's not mine!

[slondonirish]

i have to say the atmosphere at most premier league grounds is crap and im counting the likes of arsenal,chelsea and liverpool. i have only been with crystal palace so it wasnt much to get excited about but if palace won 5-1 as did arsenal at highbury you would have thought they would cheer a bit.i think its down to two factors sitting down is one but also i think the "prawn sandwich brigade" is a more important factor the majority of people following big clubs and to a certain degree big international games dont know any better
BRING BACK TERRACING