Last edited by The Fly; 12/08/2010 at 2:25 PM.
Spartak play games against those teams in their own league. Brady has left the Ireland setup to go back to work for Arsenal.Originally Posted by edmundo
I'm a) not arguing about the U-age sides, and b) not arguing who is good/not good enough to play. My argument is all to do with "location, location, location". I've been watching us play for 25 years, and the overwhelming majority of Irish players since then, played while at British clubs. So it's clear that you have to play there, in order to play regularly for Ireland.
As you can see, a disagreement with mypost can't possibly be complete without the old reliables chipping in with the likes of the above.
Last edited by mypost; 12/08/2010 at 7:28 PM.
NL 1st Division Champions 2006
NL Premier Division Champions 2010
NL Premier Division Champions 2011
Keep Tallaght Tidy, Throw your rubbish in the Jodi
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And yet you've been giving countless evidence of people playing in France, Italy, Spain, Belgium, Holland, USA, Portugal and yes even Ireland who have been capped by Ireland. Whilst of the 213 players playing in England/Scotland at the moment (tets stats), only 60ish have been capped and thats being generous.
Here are the facts:
90% of players who play outside of Ireland, England and Scotland have been capped by Ireland whilst there
25% of players who play in England/Scotland get capped. (Being very generous)
Less than 1% of players who play in Ireland get capped.
So it seems players are far more likely to get capped playing on the continent according to those stats!
But no matter what spin anyone puts on this they won't convince you that Airtricity league players are being shafted.
You've hit the nail on the head with 'Location, Location, Location' but your looking at it wrong. International Managers like to watch their prospective selections play against other international players as a yardstick. And unfortunately, there are little or no International players playing in the Airtricity League, its the wrong location.
a) Is there a good reason to ignore them, other than them proving an inconvenience to the bizarre point you're trying to peddle? Why would the under-21 players based in Ireland be exempt from a "shun policy" if such did exist? If you're the FAI, why not just apply it to them as well?
b) The overwhelming majority of Irish players appearing for us internationally in the past 25 years have played for us whilst at British clubs because, sure enough, the overwhelming majority of international-standard Irish players in the past 25 years just so happen to have played, and continue to play, for British clubs. And their playing for British clubs is down to the fact that these individuals have the ability to attract the attention of these clubs, play at a higher standard and naturally earn a better living. Their departure from these shores would have had little to do with trying to break free from some imaginary policy of shunning them because of their location. You still haven't given any viable or valid rationale for the FAI utilising such a policy other than Jack Charlton having decided 24 years ago that Irish-based players weren't good enough and every manager since wishing to carry that decision of his on as some sort of weird tradition or something...
Good post. Just a few minor things:
"Are" or "aren't", you mean? I assume you meant "aren't" as 'mypost' seems to beleive they are being shafted by some official shun policy anyway.So it seems players are far more likely to get capped playing on the continent according to those stats!
But no matter what spin anyone puts on this they won't convince you that Airtricity league players are being shafted.
I gather you're using "location" in the rhetorical and metaphoric sense. League of Ireland players who stand out in the league are given a chance when it's warranted, as is fair and to be expected - to put it down to tokenism is particularly cynical - but ultimately, as I think you're agreeing, it comes down to judging a player by the standard at which he is playing being a factor in deciding whether or not a player is good enough to play for Ireland or not. That's not indicative of an active shun policy; it just shows that the general standard - save for the odd exception - isn't considered high enough to warrant regular senior and consistent call-ups from across the board. And, to be fair, it isn't. Would anyone really argue otherwise? Other than 'mypost', of course...You've hit the nail on the head with 'Location, Location, Location' but your looking at it wrong. International Managers like to watch their prospective selections play against other international players as a yardstick. And unfortunately, there are little or no International players playing in the Airtricity League, its the wrong location.
I'm talking exclusively about the players playing for the senior team.
The standard of a league doesn't matter. Players playing for countries, play in leagues all over the planet. If the player is good enough to play for his country, then he's good enough.
Last edited by mypost; 12/08/2010 at 10:03 PM.
NL 1st Division Champions 2006
NL Premier Division Champions 2010
NL Premier Division Champions 2011
Keep Tallaght Tidy, Throw your rubbish in the Jodi
Ten Years Not Out
I'm fully aware of that, as I acknowledged. I was asking why you wish to talk exclusively about them considering there's no valid reason to ignore the under-age players who are Irish-based and are chosen without a gripe or reluctance to line out for our junior sides, other than it being inconvenient to your argument.
I meant 'are'. Remember mypost started this by saying that McGeady wouldn't get called up because he is playing in Russia. mypost included every country outside of Britain in his shun policy. So I was highlighting that a higher proportion of people playing outside of Britain and Ireland get capped than those playing in Britain (selective I know but so is mypost).
Exactly. When Doyle and Fahey were looking promising in Ireland, Trapattoni/Kerr didn't have the luxury to call him into the Ireland squad for a trial like club managers do. There is a natural progression to international recognition and it generally follows the same path save for exceptional talents. Work your way up, through youth systems/lower leagues etc until your playing at your level. Just because Doyle and Fahey are good enough now doesn't mean they always were, and if you believe that mypost, then your incredibly naive.
Certainly, but those playing for better countries tend to play in better leagues because these better leagues, naturally enough, tend to attract better players, or at least potentially better players. It's all pretty straightforward. The level at which you play can be a fairly good indication of your own abilities more often than not, I would think.
Indeed. Which explains why certain League of Ireland players who've stood out as exceptional talents in the league have been given the chance to shine now and again over the years. Only thing was they generally failed to make a considerable enough impact to confirm their status as permanent, international-standard players.If the player is good enough to play for his country, then he's good enough.
Sorry, yes. I think I see what you're saying. The way you worded it above meant it could be read to give two different meanings. I think.Just to clarify that I have you right this time; your personal feeling on the matter is the League of Ireland players aren't being shafted, contrary to the belief of 'mypost' in an official or active shun policy?
Of course they aren't being shafted. You'd have to be myopic to agree with mypost.Sorry, yes. I think I see what you're saying. The way you worded it above meant it could be read to give two different meanings. I think.
Who's picking the team?
In Doyle's case, he waited 4 months after going to play for a lower league English team, before getting called into the squad. Now, what in his game changed in those 4 months? Not a lot, imo.Exactly. When Doyle and Fahey were looking promising in Ireland, Trapattoni/Kerr didn't have the luxury to call him into the Ireland squad for a trial like club managers do. There is a natural progression to international recognition and it generally follows the same path save for exceptional talents. Work your way up, through youth systems/lower leagues etc until your playing at your level. Just because Doyle and Fahey are good enough now doesn't mean they always were, and if you believe that mypost, then your incredibly naive.
At one stage, it was 16 years before a home-based player got into the team. He made one more appearance as an injury-time sub. The next one got two minutes as an injury time sub. In the 6 years since, one sole home-based player has got into the side. That's not a fair chance in my eyes. Over recent years, we've had players from the Championship, League 1, and League 2 playing for Ireland. Few of them have experience of playing European games, (unlike players here) yet they're expected to come in and perform against top ranked countries. Even fewer of them can cope.
When Irish coach's complain that we have a "small pool" of players, they're taking the pis. We have an entire league of players here to call upon if necessary, but they're not allowed to play, because they're all perceived to be not as good as lower league players in the UK. I have to strongly disagree with that.
Across Europe, countries big and small, have players playing in numerous leagues. They get regular football, at club and international level. They get experience which helps to make them better players. They're not entirely dependent on UK clubs as ours are. That's why I don't think McGeady will feature as often for Ireland from now on. It's either England/Celtic or bust as far as Ireland are concerned.
NL 1st Division Champions 2006
NL Premier Division Champions 2010
NL Premier Division Champions 2011
Keep Tallaght Tidy, Throw your rubbish in the Jodi
Ten Years Not Out
Mypost, in recent years who are all these players from below Championship level that have played any meaningful part in the Irish squad?
Westwood is the only example i can think of and he was soon transfered to a Championship side and has since been linked with Premiership clubs.
Wes Hoolahan played in a friendly or two. He might have still been in the Championship at that stage though.
Hoolahan was at Blackpool in the Championship when he was capped.
The last League 1/2 player was Peter Murphy, on the summer tour to the US. The fact that it was at the same time as Joe Gamble and Alan Bennett won't appease mypost though. Neither will the fact that Graham Gartland could've been there too if he'd answered the phone.
Anyway this thread has gone way off topic.
The McGeady deal has gone through. Expected to make his debut on the 21st of August.
Best of luck to the wee lad. Hopefully he impresses and increases his reputation, but most importantly learns something about the game and turns up for Ireland a more complete player.
Last edited by Closed Account; 13/08/2010 at 1:13 AM.
Confirmation of the move from Sovetsky Sport: http://www.sovsport.ru/news/text-item/402608
My browser's translator translates it as follows:
Makgidi signed with "Spartacus" four-year contract
According Bobsoccer, football team of Ireland Aiden Makgidi signed a contract with Spartak for four years. Recall that the player's salary will be 1.5 million euros per year, and "Spartacus" will pay for his passage, 12 million euros.
Couldn't put it better myself. Beautiful.
This is the original story from Bobsoccer: http://bobsoccer.ru/user/13/blog/?item=4455
And translated:
MAKGIDI moved to Spartak
Saga titled "Throwing Irishman Makgidi" completed. Completed successfully for "Spartacus." Player Team Ireland has signed the same contract with the Moscow club - for four years. His salary in Russia is about 1.5 million euros per year. A "Spartacus", according to British sources, will pay for the player about 10 million pounds.
Makgidi arrive in Russia next week, but not as a tourist, but as a full member of Spartak team. No bodyguards, nannies and personal submarines, as it slipped in the Russian press, he is not allowed. Makgidi will for the first time only a driver, which is understandable.
Actually trying not to keel over with laughter here. He must be raging he couldn't bargain a sub out of the tight-arses. And isn't it about time someone changed the thread title to 'Aiden Makgidi'?
HAHA, that is actually one of the funniest things I've read on the internet. How long is it before players actually start demanding submarines? I know I would if I was a footballer.
Yeah they type things as they are pronounced... so Keith Andrews -> Кит Эндрюс -> "Kit Endruys", Robbie Keane -> Робби Кин -> "Robbi Kin"... also county Meath is simply Мит -> "Mit", Drogheda becomes the somewhat easier to spell "Дроэда" -> "Droeda"
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