so he'll be helping us to draw more games then?
slovaks beating cyprans 6-1 is ominous, as i say.
I
Thought steven reid played well when he moved into the middle.
he is the only midfield player we have that is not afraid to put himself about.
also he went looking for the ball when he moved into midfield.
i think we played better when the germans scored not cause they sat back but because reid moved into the middle
the o brien lad from newcastle has great pace.
disappointed but not down hearted.
ps stans left foot looks like its still in good working order
Anyone else notice how Ray Houghton biased against him & seemed to be nit picking in direct contrast to Liam Brady?Originally Posted by joema
Ireland lucky not to lose 3-0.
No shot on target in 90 minutes.
Lot of huff and puff, long balls, no real obvious plan.
Bizarre is the only way to describe.
Duff - McGeady
Kilbane - O'Brien
Doyle - Elliot.
I know Duff wasn't have a great game but he did have 3 germans on him each time (every manager now knows how to kill irish attacks) & if changed tactics could have made space for him.
Doyle was one of the better players & O'Brien was clueless when he came on.
Only reason I can thnk of for taking off Doyle was he was tred after working his nuts off the entire game. i doubt it but its the only possible thing I can think off.
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We may not have had a shot on target but Keane and Dunne should easily have scored from 2 free headers.
Agreed. Bringing McGeady and Elliot on were the right moves but Reid and Keane should have come off. Neither were doing anything and Doyle and Duff looked like they had the potential to make something happen. O'Brien coming on was last throw of the dice type move so I don't have any real quibble with that and Kilbane was useless anyway.
I'm a little more optimistic than most here (probably the atmosphere at the match made it seem better). The defence was quite solid with Dunne and Given superb. The midfield was awful and that stopped us from being able to do anything going forward as there was no supply. A midfield of Reid and maybe Kavanagh if he improves on the Dutch performance might do better against the weaker teams in the group; enough to give Doyle and Keane some chance of scoring anyway.
We're not arrogant, we're just better.
Given 9
Carr 7
O'Brien 7
Dunne 8
Finnan 7
Reid 4
O'Shea 4
Kilbane 4
Duff 6
Doyle 8
Keane 6
Subs barely touched the ball.
Yes only losing 1 nil in Germany looks good but only looking at the scoreline will delude you. Getting sent off in an international match is idiotic - who will sit on the bench for the next games?
Why no friendly on wednesday? We have yet to play an away friendly with Staunton.
Good game and great atmosphere from both sides. Ireland started well and had a good scoring opportunity by Robbie Keane...but couldn't continue to play on this high level, as Germany found its rhythm and stepped up the pace.
I think it was a big mistake from Steve Staunton to start with O'Shea & Reid in the central midfield, as they never could create real pressure on this new German defence! IMO the better choice for this position would have been Robbie Keane & Reid or McGeady & Reid. You have to improve your attacking performance for the next quali games, then you surely have got a good chance to defeat the Czechs and Slovakians! It seems to me that you need some kind of a playmaker and I think that Robbie Keane or Aiden McGeady would be the right choice.
Unfortunately the Czechs reached a lucky, late win against Wales...but nothing is lost for you yet! Good luck for the next matches!
Why no friendly on wednesday? We have yet to play an away friendly with Staunton.[/QUOTE]
Good point. I see Wales are playing Brazil on Tuesday. Surely we could have got Argentina seeing as they are in London at present. I think issues like this only highlight how wrong Staunton is for the job. It's a full time job so he's getting paid to look after the team, I suspect this would include mentioning possible friendly games. I remember in 2003 we organised a game v Turkey at relatively short notice (maybe a month or so before)!
post match interview seemed totally removed from the reality of the actual game. very worrying.
dont think the reff was against us either, if anything he should have given them a peno.
he possibly could have given a couple of yeallow for german tackles but thats it. we certainly didnt deserve a peno.
No midfield whatsover. and inability to hold onto the ball means we were inviting the germans on to us to attack.
we could have got a result here if we didnt give the ball away so much and if we could do anything creative at all. two big ifs! very poor and for staunton to come on after and say we were brilliant and the reff was against us is shocking. needs to look at alternatives in midfield or we will have big problems come the next qualifying for world cup. cant understand how keane stayed on and doyle was taken off. keane shouldnt be captain and shouldnt be undroppable. very disapointing performance as in we didnt seem to create anything and we coulcnt hold on to the ball. no change from dutch game there. Kilbane not good enough at this level. nobody can question his workrate and commitment but he simply cant hold on to the ball. o shea is the same. stephen reid has been a big disapointment also. fair play to o brien who isnt playing at his club and put in a good performance. how lucky are we to have given? all in all a lot of huff and puff with no end product whatsoever. manager seems to be deluded as well.
Maybe I'm deluded too so. We did a lot better than I expected us to do.
During the build up I thought we were lambs to the slaughter. The noise and the sheer wave of nationalism on display was amazing. With those big 20 foot flags being held on the pitch and all the Germans in their colours and singing their songs I wouldn't have been surprised if the Fuhrer himself took to the pitch to address the crowd.
This was a better team than the French 2 years ago & the home crowd effect came into play this time. The pocket of Irish at the diagonally opposite end of the ground to me were drowned out at will.
The game started and we showed intent from the off. Robbie should probably have scored. Of course they had chances, a home team always will. Yes, we rode our luck and I wouldn't have any other keeper in world football than Given. Richard Dunne was sensational and yet again O'Brien defied his club form to look every inch an international defender for Ireland. Kevin Doyle was superb, covering every blade of grass and getting his head to every restart. Carr played one of his better games and Finnan's presence on the left meant that side was simply not the weakness it has been so many times. It's not the long term solution but it was OK on the night.
Yet of course that's not enough. Our central midfield was poor and I can't for the life of me understand why Reid is persistently picked RHM when he's our best central midfieler. I've said dozens of times that the biggest tactical failing of the last campaign was Kilbane in CM. Yes, he's got the physique & running power to upset & get stuck in but has absolutely none of the finesse, vision or passing required for CM. But, Kav would have been eaten alive out there. So too Miller and others. The Germans were huge, every one of them. I agree we created nothing from this part of the pitch but I also think in KK's absence the Germans would have been more dangerous.
The solution is obvious: Steven Reid has all of Kilbane's physical attributes plus a ball player's instincts. I can't believe O'Shea is being slated again. His first 60 mins last night was good. He did everything he should have done. He made errors late on but some of the passes he received were shocking. Alongside a natural central midfielder his contribution would be more appreciated.
A note on Alan O'Brien. Someone said his pace showed how much of a threat he can be. Yes, but he got given the ball 3 times and 3 times he controlled it worse than I would have. Nerves maybe, but suggesting he's ahead of Duff is daft. Duff was fine last night, it's just that we expect so much of him.
Tactically I think we could have been better, but I've no complaints about the attitude out there. Several times during the game we responded to strong periods of theirs with strong retorts of our own. Their crowd was silenced several times. We should have scored twice - Robbie & Dunneand from a Reid free O'Shea hheaded the ball into a German's head. I saw O'Shea's reaction. Lehman's parry could easily have gone to Doyle. If we keep that attitude throughout we'll have a chance.
We lost to a good team away. 1-0. Not a cause to celebrate but hardly a disaster. We'll always need Dunne & Given to play well away from home. That's why they're there.
The Germans will beat everyone at home. I'm sure of it. The Czechs looked vulnerable. Solvakia win easily against Cyprus. Commendable yes, but ultimately it's expected. Staunton picked a team for the night. I hope a lesson is learnt about central mid and Kilbane.
And to the **** who said he's glad we lost because Staunton is a coward - go **** off and follow another country then. We don't need your types.
Why no friendly on wednesday? We have yet to play an away friendly with Staunton.[/QUOTE]
Next year we cannot play any home friendlies as Croke Park is only available for competative matches. As such, we should see away friendlies make a welcome return (last one was in Poland April 2004)
just back from the game and have been trying to read up on how the fans and press thought we played. I thought we did ok - first half we came flying out of the traps and made it uncomfortable for the Germans. I've not seen any replays of how the free kick came about. I've seen the deflection off Robbie when I got back to the hotel on german tv and it looked jammy to say the least. Shay Given was fantastic, his save in the first half looked world class from where I was sitting. Brilliant keeper and he kept the score down for us. Dunne played a blinder as well.
On the negatives:
Kilbane and O'Shea were invisible once again, I only noticed them playing when they gave the ball away. We need to give some of the other young lads a chance, both of these guys have had plenty of opportunities now and don't grasp em. S Reid on the right of midfield? MacGeady should have been starting from the off. I know we are never gonna replace Keano - he was a one in a million but we can surely find someone who can run, tackle and pass a little with a bit more authority??!!
Doyle won a lot of headers and should have stayed on. He was way more effective than Elliott from my position behind the goal. Duff took a lot of crunching tackles and was limping for a while before getting subbed. The atmosphere since Friday was fantastic in Stuttgart - I thought we'd have had half of the tickets by the sheer number of people in the main square.......not to be unfortunately!!!
Stan was on his feet for most of the game shouting instructions, cajoling and encouraging the players. He reminded me of Chilavert at wc 98. I don't think it has quite sunk in how low in self belief /confidence this team has fallen to or the dearth of talent in the squad for a game at this standard. Is kicking a ball away the best that that fxckwit dunphy can come up with. I was sitting directly behind Stan, I had no problem with him kicking the ball and blowing his top.
I could't give a ****e if Stan talks like he has a poker up his ass in front of the camera, I could see that he can communicate quite fine to the team. I can understand why he would express magnanimous praise for the players. I'd agree with the comment that the game was dissapointing but not downheartening. Some things didn't work some things did. At least Carr was stalwart last night.
Just give me one consistantly good solid midfield player, a leader. Unfortunatly we don't have any, Miller and mc Phail are lightweights, Steven Reid looks quite ordinary in this company. In theory, Carsley could be a stopgap solution. Then I think a lot of the other pieces would fall into place.
As for the rest, the team showed they have the desire and commitment to go forward.
The Germans will beat everyone at home. I'm sure of it. The Czechs looked vulnerable. Solvakia win easily against Cyprus. Commendable yes, but ultimately it's expected. Staunton picked a team for the night. I hope a lesson is learnt about central mid and Kilbane.
That's a fair statement. I think it will come down to who picks up points away between us, Czechs and Slovakia. I don't think Wales will be a problem but could do us favours, like they nearly did last night. We've got to remember we are 4th seeds. We played 1st seeds last night. Maybe it's over optimistic but we've got a chance in this group. We do need the odd friendly though!
I think we have a chance to go through.
Although we did not create much in the game,apart from two great chances neither did the German team.
Just got back, thought we played fairly well, not outstanding but not poorly.
Given was world class, best keeper in the world.
Carr had a great game and really gave it his all.
Dunne did well, had a couple of headers he might have dispatched on another night (he seemed to be our only player who could win a header in their box, but he could win the headers easily - just couldnt find the target)
An. O'Brien thought he had a great game
Finnan solid game, not spectacular but did the job
Kilbane not great, only really played in fits and starts
Reid, did ok but his lack of experience meant he was caught out of position a few times - free kicks were not too good. Think if he had a more experienced midfielder next to him he would be better
O'Shea - probably his best game for Ireland, but was still fairly average and towards the end gave away possesion a bit too much.
Duff - not at his best, had glimpses of magic but seemed to take a knock in the second half and didnt really get back into the swing of things.
Doyler - good lad, tried hard and had a really good run in the second half where he beat what seemed like the whole German left side.
Keane - tried hard but lacked the support and frequently had to come far back to get the ball, and was also defending a lot more than I would expect.
The subs didnt really have much time to make an impact, but Alan O'Brien's pace nearly got him in behind the Germans. One for the future perhaps.
All of this was seen after a few beers, so I might have missed one or two things but my thoughts are as follows.
We started really well and put them under a lot of pressure. Defence was fairly solid, Shay was immense. Duff, even playing below his optimal standard, caused them a lot of problems and we won a few free kicks in decent positions. Carr was world class, best I've seen him for years.
And the bad stuff... at times it felt like we didnt have a striker, Doyle and Keane were dropping back so much to try and get posession, and by the end it was like Doyle was playing left winger. Center midfield was about two kicks behind the game, there wasnt too much coordination between O'Shea and Reid at times they both chased the ball and at other times they both sat back. They lack the mutual understanding at this stage and maybe a calmer, older head should be thrown into the fray (Carsley or Kav - if he gets going this season). Yellow cards, Given, Reid and Dunne (I think didn't see it clearly) picked up yellows if they get a few more we could be in trouble in terms of suspensions.
Set plays were poor, if Ian Harte had been on the pitch I think we would have scored from one of the free kicks. Certainly if he was to play I think he would be our most likely goal scorer. If its 50-50 between to players to start I would consider picking a set piece specialist (eg say Kav over O'Shea).
I do worry about us getting goals, we've lots of creative players but we really need a good old fashioned selfish striker, ideally a target man too. I wish we had a young Aldo or Quinney back. A striker who could really get up there and head the ball would be great, all I can think of is Alan Lee but I have doubts as to if he is really good enough at the very highest level... Maybe Clinton's sheer physical presence means he should get a shout (but then it's hard to drop Doyle or Robbie Keane). I think Clinton gives us more options, at this stage, than Elliott.
We are in a tricky spot now, but that was always going to be our hardest game, I still think we have a good chance but we will need to beat the Czechs without question.
Last v Holland (a) June 2004
Is there a divergence of opinion between those who were there and those who watched RTE?
I'm much more in accordance with Geysir, Edmundo & Shakermaker than the others.
There's a post in another thread from a newbie in Tampa questioning the commitment of our "prima donnas". I saw no evidence of that on the night.
Like Geysir, I couldn't care less how Staunton comes across on TV. The players played like they were up for it on Saturday. Any fault in this team's performance is down to lack of quality central midfield - again. Staunton's tactics and selection were his way of trying to get around this. I'd have done it another way, but any selection I'd prefer would also be speculative.
Late on I'd like to have seen a defender sacrificed for another attacking player too.
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