QuoteNot sure there is that much of a gap between the Bundesliga and the English Premier League, Dortmund(1997) and Bayern(2001) have won the Champions League, the same amount of wins as the EPL.
Don't know about that. I'd be interested in seeing the statistics from the game. Anyone got them?Originally Posted by concanta
We have a team of Premiership players. Is it so hard to ask of them to put in a solid performance against a side pretty much made up of players from the inferior Bundesliga? Passing the ball between one another shouldn't be such a problem for a group of top-flight players. A lot of the Irish players looked like the didn't want the ball. John O'Shea's attempt (or lack thereof) to control the ball and be creative after a throw-in toward the end of the game summed up the night really. He aimlessly hoofed the ball vertically into the air for a German to collect. Shocking and infuriating.
When exactly? For a spell of 5 minutes at the beginning of the match when both teams were getting to grips with the game? To be honest, Ireland never looked like they would seriously threaten, bar the rare chance (e.g. Reid's free kick, Dunne's last-minute header). Even these chances didn't come from play.
There was a spell in the first half when it looked a bit shaky and the German forwards seemed to be able to find space for free headers rather easily at times. Given was fantastic as ever and made up for poor defending. However, and to be fair, the defence did make some important interceptions and overall I think Andy O'Brien is our best choice, although to give away such a silly free-kick was foolish. Dunne will have to get this hoofing the ball up the field out of his game. Ireland haven't got Niall Quinn anymore. The number of times Richard Dunne hoofed the ball up the field on Saturday night recycling the ball back for another German attack is unbelievable. I was resigned to defeat well before the final whistle.
Duff had three men on him. We can't rely on one player to provide a spark and create opportunites. That's what Ireland are doing with Duff. I agree with you. And as for Stan taking him off, I thought it was an awful decision. Kilbane should have been the one to come off. I nearly forgot he was in the pitch at one stage. When he's in possession he resembles a dog frantically chasing after a ball, not a man in control of what he's doing. Simply changing things won't get you back into the game as Stan seemed to think in his post-match interview - you have to change things in a postive manner. I felt Duff's input was positive on Saturday. He looked dangerous at some stages and I feel that if he was left on he had the potential to do damage as Ireland's most skillful player.
Definitely agree with you here.
I think Stephen Reid has to be in there. Sending him onto the wing on Saturday was a mistake. He wasn't afraid to put in tackles and seemed well up for taking on the German midfield when he was playing in the centre.
Edit: Just another thing (and Dunphy pointed this out); after the German free-kick which lead to the goal was layed off, the Irish wall should have been chasing the ball down. Instead, they stood completely still giving Podolski a chance to get a shot in.
Last edited by DannyInvincible; 04/09/2006 at 12:00 PM.
Not sure there is that much of a gap between the Bundesliga and the English Premier League, Dortmund(1997) and Bayern(2001) have won the Champions League, the same amount of wins as the EPL.
Well, it certainly isn't a superior league.
In technical terms I'd suspect it is. In financial terms it's not. Players with technical ability do well in international tournaments.
Was there with the rest of you on Saturday and was naturally disappointed but refuse to think that its all doom and gloom. Strong defensive performance, full backs solid and Dunne immense.
Midfield area is the obvious problem, I feel that Stan is still trying to find his best pairing...this job should have been done at a US Cup type competition over the Summer, not in crucial qualifiers.
When you have 2 naturally gifted wingers in your squad they should both be on the pitch. McGeady did not have enough time to make an impact. We haven't got talent on tap but we should at least use what we have.
At least the toughest game is out of the way. I didn't think the Germans were brilliant but they did enough and are certainly in the top 3 sides at the moment. I still fancy us to get through.
Staunton said he wanted to give his players a rest. That's fine for the senior guys, but let the fringe guys have a chance to put themselves in the shop window. See it as complementing the proposed B international schedule. Certainly given the conundrum we're now facing, it'd be great to have had the benefit of this.
Don't shoot me for mentioning his name again, but I don't think there's much wrong with the team that a player with Kevin Nolan's attributes wouldn't improve drastically (this is not a debate on trying to call him up or whatever -just an assessment of what's missing).
Solving left back is still a problem, but nowhere near as much as central midfield.
Was comparing this team with my mates on a drive back to Frankfurt Hahn with the team of 88 and at least 5 of this team would make that side: Given (Bonner), Dunne (McCarthy), Finnan (Morris), Duff (Galvin) and Keane (Aldridge). We're not as weak as we think. Central midfield is the key area as we all know and if Andy Reid can shed a few pounds and regain his form, all is not lost.
Forget about the performance or entertainment. It's only the result that matters.
People seem to forget the Germans were one of the best teams at the world cup.They beat a lot of people's fancies, Argentina, and only lost to the eventual champs in the last few minutes of the game.
Klose was top scorer and Podolski was not far behind them.
They scored a load of goals in the early parts of their World Cup games but against us, they didn't have a shot for the first half hour.
Given did keep is in it with his saves, but Robbie was barely offside for his goal and Dunne should have scored at the end.
We were weak in the centre of the park but we have players to come in their: A Reid, S Reid, Miller, Douglas, McPhail, Carsley, Kavanagh.
We have more choice up front than we have had in many years:Keane, Doyle, Elliot, Morrison, Doherty, Lee.
Our next four games are against Cyprus, the Czechs and San Marino twice.
We should definetly get 9 points against Cyprus and San Marino and there is absolutely no reason why we should nt beat the Czechs at home(they werent great against Wales.)
Twelve points(or even 10) would leave us in a prominent position in the group with big home games to come in Croker.
Just being optimistic
That's not allowed on here
Next game is crucial. A convincing win, or rather any win but with a convincing performance, with no injuries / suspensions will open it up for a corker against Czechs.
Staunton has nearly lost as many competitive games as Kerr. And he's only played one!
If we're aiming for qualification then we have to get 12 points from the next 4 games imo. 6 points from the 2 San Marino games are pretty much bankers anyway so we should be going all out to win the next 2 games.
No reason why we can't get 12 points.
We should have learned a bit about Cyprus in the last campaign to turn them over.If the Slovaks can hit them for 6 we should be able to tuck a few away.
Big game in Landsdowne against the Czechs.
We did alright against them in a friendly a couple of years back and they are a weaker outfit now.(I know it was only a friendly but that was out most recent game against them)
I agree 12 points is what we have to get. If we got a draw in Germany then possibly a draw at home to Czechs would have been ok but not now. 12 points please.
In Trap we trust
Just wondering if a new manager came in now and got 10 points from our next 4 games would he be heralded as a miracle worker like Kerr was when we got 7 points from Georgia & Albania away and then Albania at home (the latter in a dire performance)? Very probably, despite it being a very likely outcome.
10 points should be the minimum achieved. In fact you'd get very short odds on a Cyprus/ San Marino/ San Marino win accumulator so the real "doubtful" result is Czechs at home.
A spread bet price on points gained from our next 4 games would probably be something like 11 - 9.5 (so 10.25 mid-price).
Any gamblers here agree? I never bet!
Let's say we only get 10 points.
But from then on we get 4 points against Wales & Slovakia. A further 3 at home to Cyprus. A draw at home to Germany and a draw in Czech Rep.
This'll total 23 points. This will be pretty close to securing second place. Where can we likely pick up more? At home to Czechs or away to Wales (not easy).
Long winded way of saying 10 points not a disaster!
Last edited by Stuttgart88; 05/09/2006 at 2:27 PM.
to be honest I dont think 10 is enough
We need to beat the czechs - end of
IF Sir Bobby is back and fit by then I think we will get 12
If we are to have any chance 10 points is a minimum requirement but in reality I think we will need 12. I don't see us getting anything away against the Czech's or the Slovaks and the 2 Wales games will be very tight, they always are.
There's an excellent post by a Slovak on chatsoccer.net, another Irish footy forum (the main one!), detailing the strength of the Slovakia side, but also saying the 6-1 result against Cyprus was misleading.
Anyone see Wales vs Brazil? I only saw about 20 minutes. This Welsh side has some decent players & Toshack isn't afraid to blood youth either. He's also tactically far more astute than our manager. They've no world beaters in central midfield but they do have central midfielders in central midfield!
Toshack has bundles of top level managerial experience. He's also the best British pundit on TV (so good they won't show him...)
If Wales get a couple of results before they play us they could be really really difficult to beat.
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Wales are as good as we are and they have a better manager, the 2 games against them will be very tight.
They looked good for about an hour last night but you have to say that any team with Giggs, Bellamy & Earnshaw in it will be a threat, Simon Davies on the Right side is a good ball player too. I think, like us they are weak in the middle of midfield and the system they play (normally 5 at the back) will hopefully give our wide players a chance to get in behind their wing backs.
I reckon Germany will sew up the top spot and second is between 4 teams with the Czechs facourites to go through but if we can win the next 4 games then the pressure will be on the other 3 teams.
Player for player Wales are nowhere near as good as we are. At a stretch they might get 3 players in our first team - Bellamy, Giggs and Gabbidon (though Giggs is not as good as Duff IMO but it's debatable). Everywhere else on the pitch we are miles better (even central midfield if we played the 2 Reids there). We should beat them comfortably though I suspect we won't due to the management. I can't see them in the running for the second qualifying spot.
If they played Germany the other night they would have been hammerred on the evidence of the Brazil match last night (Germany being at home and being currently far better than Brazil if the WC is anything to go by).
I don't understand all the doom and gloom. We have a number of potentially top WC players (Finnan, Given, Duff and Keane at international level) and a number of up and coming improving players (Doyle, J O'Brien, Ireland, S Reid). It's the team selections and tactics and amateur management that let us down over and over again.
Last edited by youngirish; 06/09/2006 at 9:11 AM.
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