QuoteNO more worringly it was from the BBC website.Originally Posted by Billsthoughts
I was actually talking about snakes on a plane....
NO more worringly it was from the BBC website.
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More than meets the eye
No one has a clue how his appointment will turn out, but Roy Keane could well become the most intriguing manager in English football since Brian Clough.
Rob Smyth
August 24, 2006 03:17 PM
The scene drifts easily into the mind's eye: the victim cowering miserably as Roy Keane goes postal yet again. It's X-rated stuff, a pitiless character assassination that concludes with an almost demented demand for more. Keane's dealings with his new chairman Niall Quinn will certainly be interesting if he takes the Sunderland job, but it is his relationship with his new players that really makes this one of the most fascinating appointments in modern football history.
The prevailing wisdom is that Keane's sole tactic will be to hit underperforming players with a blast so vicious as to make Sir Alex Ferguson's hairdryer feel like a gentle breeze in the desert. It is a horrible oversimplification. While Keane's attacks of rage are likely to be random and brutal, there is so much more to this incredibly complex man, a compelling fusion of forensic intelligence and pathological yearning. Quinn knows this. It was he, for example, who described Keane's ostensibly foul-mouthed slicing-and-dicing of Mick McCarthy in Saipan as "the most articulate, the most surgical slaughtering I have ever heard". He could become the most intriguing manager in English football since Brian Clough.
Or he could be a total disaster. Clough was at Leeds for 44 days and Nottingham Forest for 18 years, and you suspect that Keane may similarly be all or nothing. Certainly, there are enough reasons to suggest that it would be no surprise if he didn't last till Christmas. There is his relationship with Quinn, who he witheringly called "Mother Teresa" in 2002; Quinn may need to live up to the nickname if and when Keane goes off on one. Then there is the fear that someone so antisocial may not be able to communicate fully with his players, that he may struggle to cope with the media spotlight, that his inability to spout bland inanities to the press will lead to damaging criticism of individual players. Keane can also be wildly erratic in his judgments, as Darren Fletcher and Carlos Queiroz in particular would testify. The greatest concern, however, is that he will struggle to accept those who do not meet his almost unattainable standards. Having spent much of his career in extremely exalted company, he may find it difficult to work with players who struggle to get the ball from A to B at the best of times, never mind with a 90% success rate.
Effort alone is not enough, and Keane's expectations of his employees will go way beyond them giving 100%. Just ask Jesper Blomqvist, a diligent pro but one for whom Keane could barely hide his professional contempt. He needs players he can trust - in terms of attitude, desire and most of all ability. His pursuit of excellence will be maniacal, unflinching, more mentally gruelling than anything any of these players will have ever experienced; they are standards that would challenge the Brazil 1970 side, never mind a team that has just lost to Bury. It will take a strong character to want to work for Keane, never mind succeed, but to turn down the chance would be like walking away at the end of Lost In Translation. You would forever wonder what might have been.
So would English football if Keane had never stepped into management. Despite all the understandable reservations, it would dangerous to assume that Roy Keane would ever fail at anything. This is a character like no other: drawn magnetically to the edge; possessed of a beautiful, tortured mind which bubbles with a furious intelligence that, in his playing days, allowed him to appraise and shape the ebb and flow of a contest better than anyone; a man so shy that he struggles to talk to strangers, so aloof as to say he has never made a friend in football, and so hard that he could look every single member of the Manchester United dressing-room in the eye last year as he told them exactly what he had said about them in his infamous MUTV rant.
There is something of Martin O'Neill about Keane - a simmering, forensic, Clough-taught Irishman whose disciples would go to the ends of the earth for their man. It is entirely conceivable that he could imbue his Sunderland team with an irresistible force. The Black Cats may be about to morph into cornered tigers.
One thing they won't be is headless chickens. Forget the sporadic rage blackouts; Keane likes his footballers cool and clinical. This devil is obsessed with the detail, the minutiae of football matches. "They say God is in the detail; in football that's true," he wrote in his autobiography. "Sometimes games are won by a magical goal - that's what people remember. But the essence of the game is more mundane. Detail. Wearing down the opposition. Winning the psychological battles - man on man - from the moment the ref blows the whistle for the first time." To many Keane is a law unto himself, but to him all that matters is what he calls the Law Of Cumulation. "First tackle, first pass, first touch, everything counts. A lot of little things add up to the thing that matters: breaking the opposition's hearts - but first their minds, their collective mind."
It was Clough who taught Keane these principles. "If you weren't doing your stuff, Clough would spot it," he said. "A seemingly innocuous mistake that resulted in a goal conceded three or four minutes later, a tackle missed, or a failure to make the right run, or pass, would be correctly identified as the cause of the goal. It was no use pointing the finger at someone else - which is second nature to most players. He knew; you knew he knew. Every football match consists of a thousand little things which, added together, amount the final score. The game is full of bluffers, banging on about 'rolling your sleeves up', 'having the right attitude' and 'taking some pride in the shirt'. Brian Clough dealt in facts, specific incidents, and invariably he got it right."
In many ways, Clough is a more relevant reference point for Keane's managerial career than Sir Alex Ferguson. There is the inscrutability, the wild and random mood changes - and the unconditional love for the only tool of the trade that matters, the football. Clough once chinned Keane for passing the ball back to the goalkeeper, and it was from him that Keane learned to abhor the aimless, brainless pass. In the pinball game that is the Premiership, you always knew exactly where Keane's touch was going - to another Manchester United shirt. In his Room 101, giving away possession comes somewhere between prawn sandwiches, bluffers and Mick McCarthy.
For all Keane's obvious qualities, his appointment remains an almighty gamble - particularly given that, last season, Quinn said he thought Keane would not make a good manager. Nobody has a clue how it's going to turn out. But it's going to be fun watching.
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And to think I had booked to go to the Sunderland vs Owls game on September 30 before the news broke. Even more appetising now.
Forget about the performance or entertainment. It's only the result that matters.
Roy Keane visited Sunderland today where he met with players and officials from the club.
Keane and the club have agreed terms on him being appointed as manager, and it is envisaged that he will sign a formal contract immediately after Sunderland's game against West Brom tomorrow.
From teh Sunderland website.
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Fair play to all invloved I say - it is good to see they are able to patch up past differences and get on with it
It's official as per Sunderlands web site. He signed a 3 year deal with Tony Loughlan - ex Leicester City joining him as head coach. Loughlan was at Forest with Keane for one year and then moved on. Anyone know anything else about him (Loughlan that is).
By Nick Alexander
Roy Keane speaking at today's press conference:
"It's been very hectic, I'm absolutely knackered but it has been enjoyable. I'm looking forward to getting on with the job now.
"We met three months ago and I spoke to Niall Quinn, but at the time my priority was to sit my A [coaching] badge.
"Niall tried it [manager's job], it proved an impossible job with roles involved. He got back in touch last Monday when I was in Portugal [on holiday].
"My attitude was that I would wait a bit longer. Then I thought, 'What am I waiting for'. The challenge is there. Sunderland is a big club with a beautiful stadium, a good fan base and I thought, 'Why not'.
"I knew I would like to go to club with a decent structure, fan base, with good facilities. I obviously checked it all out and I just kept saying, 'Why not'. I played up here enough times and I know what it's like. They [the fans] love their football, they are passionate and I need that in my life.
"I want the players to keep up the level of performance from yesterday, I thought they were outstanding and credit to Niall and the other staff, we just came to watch.
"Credit to our lads and now they've got to try to keep it up. I want to bring one or two players in, in terms of experience. I'm looking at one or two areas.
"There are some good, hardworking players here and hopefully I can bring a bit more to the club.
"I think our relationship [with Niall Quinn] will be fine fine, I really do. A lot of people make big isssue of it. We sorted it out there and then [when they met in the summer], despite whether I took the job or not.
"People have impressions of me. I've had indifferences with thousands of people over the years. I care, that's the type of character I am.
"I've played under some great managers, some good managers and some not so good managers.
"It's new to me, it's was my first day today, it's learning curve and I'm looking forward to it. I'm young and hungry, and it's the same with Tony Loughlin [head coach], that's a big plus.
"We're lacking experience but it's not worked out for one or two experienced managers here.
"I have crossed that white line before and it's cost me, the World Cup in 2002 was a downside; but it's [my character] also a big plus, I care about the game who I'm playing for or managing.
"I will look to get the balance right and it comes with experience. I'm just glad I've got this opportunity and I would not be sitting here if I thought I could not do it.
"All that's expected is people give 100%, I only criticised if people were slack and not focused. I spoke with the players this morning and reassured them that if they give 100 per cent, there will not be a problem. If people take their eye of the ball, there will be a problem - it's straightforward.
"I spoke briefly to Alex Ferguson in the last few days, but you've got to be your own man. I always enjoyed the way he looked after his players, backed them and defended them. Maybe I crossed that line towards the end [of his time at United] and rightly was punished. You move on.
"I was very fortunate to play under him and I know I can pick up the phone to him. I'm sure he will lend me a few players.
"When I retired, I believed I'd be one or two years out of the game. After doing my A badge at the end of July, when I met some great people, I just thought coaching was right for me.
"Fortunately the opportunity came here. I'm ready to cope with it. You have to give it a go. In life you have to go for it. Had I not taken it, in six months' time I might have regretted it.
"When I was playing I always saw games like a war. It was part of my image, playing for the biggest club in the world. I had to win at all costs. I can't be like that as much now, but again if something not right I'll deal with it, hopefull a little more subtly.
"It's all a balancing act. I have to be different as a manager. Let's kick on, onwards and upwards.
"You can go a hell of a long way when you have that believe. Let's kick on and see where we go."
Last edited by NeilMcD; 29/08/2006 at 12:57 PM.
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Cheers for that Neil, didn't know you were a Bohs fan??
will watch with interest, i always happy to see Irish people do well in any walk of life . I just hope it works out.
Clough and Ferguson in the first catagory, obviously."I've played under some great managers, some good managers and some not so good managers.
Then where do Charlton, McCarthy, Kerr and Strachan fall into?
Who would have asked Keane the question, "which ones were the crap ones Roy"?
Listening to Cathal Dervan on the Sports BAg on Suynday morning he alluded he would be in the crowd at the press conferance and that some of the questions he would ask might turn the situation into a Charlton-Dunphy scenario post Egypt 1990. Was Dervan there? Did he try to ruffle RMK's feathers at all?
Here they come! It’s the charge of the “Thanks” Brigade!
what a mupppet that guy Dervan is. Imagine going along to trying to re create an incident between a manager and a sad journalist. Dunphy and Dervan are as bad as each other.
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Agreed,
Also I hate to mention the dreaded S word ( only last week I had another headed debate on it) but I thing this link up between Quinn and Keane is another step to putting the whole Saipan saga to bed.
Unless it goes horribly wrong...............
Dervan is a total muppet and as i heard of no foolishness at the press conference I assume he did not show thankfully.
I think Keane went as far as he ever will to admitting that me made mistakes in Saipan. From listening to the press conference he basically said he had a few flaws which cost him his place at the World Cup in 2002 and the end of his Utd career but in addition these flaws made him the player that he was and the person he is. All of which is true in my view.
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I don't agree with that Neil, Keane's character is one of that if he thinks he is right, he IS right. He'll probably look back and realise things could've been done or said differently but there's no way I think he'll ever think he was wrong.
The man is a born winner who demands excellence in all aspects in order to be at the top of your game, when it is not there it's not him who he thinks is to blame for it.
That's about it DFA, in a nutshell but Neil was saying the same thing. I heard on 5 Live last night, an interview with the editor of some fanzine called 'Red Man Walking' who was at the press conference. According to him, Keane was asked afterwards if he had made up with McCarthy, Keane replied to the effect that he was not going to walk around the dressing to ask if players were faking injuries, he had his regrets but he would do it all over again exactly, given the chance.
Anyway he is a fascinating subject. Just don't ask him if he's faking it.
From BBC this morning:
Roy Keane wants Blackburn defender Andy Todd to be his first signing as Sunderland manager. (Independent)
The Black Cats boss also wants to grab former Republic of Ireland colleagues Graham Kavanagh and David Connolly from Wigan. (Daily Mail)
As well as landing Man Utd reserve Liam Miller, Portsmouth defender Andy O'Brien and Blackburn midfielder Jonathan Douglas - all Irish. (Daily Mirror)
Very predictable that every average Irish player is going to be linked with Sunderland now, we can also expect a few Celtic names no doubt.
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