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Thread: Advice on the Laws of the Game

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jock MIB View Post
    Going to try this one before The Ref but probably be wrong and wil be corrected,

    Question 1- A player cannot leave and enter the FOP without the referee's permission if A player does it is a Cautionable offence depending on circumstances and would be an indirect free kick to oppposition from where the player entered the field.


    Question 2- Same rule he or she cannot leave and enter the field without the referee's permission, so the offside rule is not an issue as the player is off the field, out of the play and is not active but if he or she was to enter the field it would be an indirect free kick from the place the player entered the field and a caution may be given for unsporting behaviour.

    I'm positive this is correct but The Ref will clarify im sure
    Correct - even if the player in question 2 had the referees permission, to leave the field of play, the referee still needs to send a signal for him to re-enter the fileld of play.

    Jock MIB the caution is not unsporting behaviour but entering and leaving the field of play are two of the seven cautionable offences, therefore this is what the player is cautioned for.
    Smile........ it confuses people

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Ref View Post
    Correct - even if the player in question 2 had the referees permission, to leave the field of play, the referee still needs to send a signal for him to re-enter the fileld of play.

    Jock MIB the caution is not unsporting behaviour but entering and leaving the field of play are two of the seven cautionable offences, therefore this is what the player is cautioned for.
    Getting better :-)

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    International Prospect abbeyvale's Avatar
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    Offside Query

    Please clarify,

    If an attacking team take a corner, and the ball is cleared, and all players from both teams rush outside the box (with the exception of one attacking player, who remains inside the box), then the attacking team take a shot on goal but is deflected agaisnt an opposing defender, and it falls to the attacker that is still inside the box, who truns and scorec, is he on or offside?

    Techincally, his team mate didnt pass him the ball, and it hit the defender before it arrived to him..........but I still think he is offside, coz I think the only way he could be onside is if the defender intentially passes the ball backwards towards the keeper!!!!

    Please advise.

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    First Team leather's Avatar
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    I Am Almost Certain That You Are Correct, The "played On " Rule Went Out In My Fathers Time

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    Suspended Jock MIB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by abbeyvale View Post
    Please clarify,

    If an attacking team take a corner, and the ball is cleared, and all players from both teams rush outside the box (with the exception of one attacking player, who remains inside the box), then the attacking team take a shot on goal but is deflected agaisnt an opposing defender, and it falls to the attacker that is still inside the box, who truns and scorec, is he on or offside?

    Techincally, his team mate didnt pass him the ball, and it hit the defender before it arrived to him..........but I still think he is offside, coz I think the only way he could be onside is if the defender intentially passes the ball backwards towards the keeper!!!!

    Please advise.
    It is not an offence in itself to be in an offside position. A player is in an offside position if:
    • he is nearer to his opponents’ goal line than both the ball and the second last opponent.
    A player in an offside position is only penalised if, at the moment the ball touches or is played by one of his team, he is, in the opinion of the referee, involved in active play by:
    • interfering with play or
    • interfering with an opponent or
    • gaining an advantage by being in that position

    Now the ball was played by his teammate and has ended up to him doesn't matter if it was touched by opponent he has gained advantage by being there at the point the ball was struck and is now also deemed to be active in play.

    So he is offside,

    now if the ball was struck by opponent and hit teammate then again he would be offside because the moment his teammate touches the ball he was in offside position and also gained advantage.

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    Reserves Innishvilla's Avatar
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    on the subject of offsides

    I know the goal was missed so it doesn't matter, but when Bendtner blocked Cesc's shot last night he was flagged as offside.

    In the replay I saw for sure that Hyppia was on the goal line and I thought Skrtel had slid over the end-line trying to block the cross. I thought that would have made up the two players required to play Bendtner onside. If not it seems the defending team got an advantage from a player not being on the playing surface, accidental I accept, but they still got an advantage...

    I suppose what I'm getting at is if the keeper stands behind his goal-line/end-line does that mean that the offside line is the second last defender rather than the last???
    ”That should be NO problem for the defence – OH NOOOO!!”
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    just a quick one...
    about a player gaining advantage from being offside..in our game winger got to endline inside the box ceossed and the defender headed the ball (although i know hw wanted to head it out) it went straight back to the attacker that crossed it and before he could shoot he was blown for offside.....

    Ref said..player can not gain advantage in an offside position..when brought to his notice that it was a defender he said it didnt matter.. he booked 3 players not giving out just wanting to know how he came up with idea im still confused....
    it would mean i could pass the ball back to g/k while the forward is in an offside position and attacker can not challange...beggers beliefe?????????

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    Suspended Jock MIB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigguy View Post
    just a quick one...
    about a player gaining advantage from being offside..in our game winger got to endline inside the box ceossed and the defender headed the ball (although i know hw wanted to head it out) it went straight back to the attacker that crossed it and before he could shoot he was blown for offside.....

    Ref said..player can not gain advantage in an offside position..when brought to his notice that it was a defender he said it didnt matter.. he booked 3 players not giving out just wanting to know how he came up with idea im still confused....
    it would mean i could pass the ball back to g/k while the forward is in an offside position and attacker can not challange...beggers beliefe?????????
    If the way your are discribing it is accurate and i'm not disagreeing with it ,then the attacker is not offside as the ball did not get touched by a teammate for him to occur an offside offence even though he is ahead of the last player

    the last point you made about pass back to the keeper a player can never occur an offside offence unless it is touched by a teammate

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    Thank you jock mib...ya it happened the way i said..if he had just admitted he made a split decision mistake, im sure lads then would of said well ok, he was big enough to admit it and get on..that in itself is what is wrong with alot of refs, they wont comunacate with players if they are wrong..anyway thanks again

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    Youth Team The Ref's Avatar
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    In my absence Jock MIB has been keeping the seat warm, for that thank you

    Quote Originally Posted by Jock MIB View Post
    It is not an offence in itself to be in an offside position. A player is in an offside position if:
    • he is nearer to his opponents’ goal line than both the ball and the second last opponent.
    A player in an offside position is only penalised if, at the moment the ball touches or is played by one of his team, he is, in the opinion of the referee, involved in active play by:
    • interfering with play or
    • interfering with an opponent or
    • gaining an advantage by being in that position

    Now the ball was played by his teammate and has ended up to him doesn't matter if it was touched by opponent he has gained advantage by being there at the point the ball was struck and is now also deemed to be active in play.

    So he is offside,

    now if the ball was struck by opponent and hit teammate then again he would be offside because the moment his teammate touches the ball he was in offside position and also gained advantage.
    I agree

    Quote Originally Posted by Jock MIB View Post
    If the way your are discribing it is accurate and i'm not disagreeing with it ,then the attacker is not offside as the ball did not get touched by a teammate for him to occur an offside offence even though he is ahead of the last player

    the last point you made about pass back to the keeper a player can never occur an offside offence unless it is touched by a teammate
    I agree, Law 11 states "A player in an offside position is only penalised if, at the moment the ball touches or is played by one of his team,..."

    As he is the last player from his side to play the ball he cannot be offside.
    Smile........ it confuses people

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    Quote Originally Posted by Innishvilla View Post
    I know the goal was missed so it doesn't matter, but when Bendtner blocked Cesc's shot last night he was flagged as offside.

    In the replay I saw for sure that Hyppia was on the goal line and I thought Skrtel had slid over the end-line trying to block the cross. I thought that would have made up the two players required to play Bendtner onside. If not it seems the defending team got an advantage from a player not being on the playing surface, accidental I accept, but they still got an advantage...

    I suppose what I'm getting at is if the keeper stands behind his goal-line/end-line does that mean that the offside line is the second last defender rather than the last???
    I didn't see any football this week as I was refereeing a couple of mid-week fixtures.

    But from what you say. As the player accidently left the field of play, the referee cannot punish him under Law 12 (i.e. yellow card), however, the moment he left the field of play, he is no longer part off (a bit harsh I know) therefore offside is technically the correct decision.

    As for the second part of the question.

    If the goalkeeper steps behind his goal line deliberately, he should be cautioned under Law 12 for "deliberately leaving the field of play without the referee’s permission". Play must be stopped and an indirect free kick given to the attacking team because you have stopped play to administer a caution.

    Play cannot continue as Law 3 states "A match is played by two teams, each consisting of not more than eleven players, one of whom is the goalkeeper. A match may not start if either team consists of fewer than seven players." as the defending has no technically no goalkeeper the play must be stopped.

    All theoretical really, I don’t think I ever seen it.
    Smile........ it confuses people

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Ref View Post
    I didn't see any football this week as I was refereeing a couple of mid-week fixtures.

    But from what you say. As the player accidently left the field of play, the referee cannot punish him under Law 12 (i.e. yellow card), however, the moment he left the field of play, he is no longer part off (a bit harsh I know) therefore offside is technically the correct decision.

    As for the second part of the question.

    If the goalkeeper steps behind his goal line deliberately, he should be cautioned under Law 12 for "deliberately leaving the field of play without the referee’s permission". Play must be stopped and an indirect free kick given to the attacking team because you have stopped play to administer a caution.

    Play cannot continue as Law 3 states "A match is played by two teams, each consisting of not more than eleven players, one of whom is the goalkeeper. A match may not start if either team consists of fewer than seven players." as the defending has no technically no goalkeeper the play must be stopped.

    All theoretical really, I don’t think I ever seen it.
    Cheers ref... Cleared things up again as always...
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    Here is the best picture from another thread

    http://foot.ie/showpost.php?p=912174&postcount=30

    Carragher's hand is on line and therefore the player has to be onside.

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    Help Ref?????

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBoss View Post
    Here is the best picture from another thread

    http://foot.ie/showpost.php?p=912174&postcount=30

    Carragher's hand is on line and therefore the player has to be onside.

    Now this offside rule is really confusing me,

    looking at picture Bentner is behind Hyppia and reina has went out to the ball.

    The rule says he or she is offside when ther are nearer to his opponents goal line than both the ball and the second last opponent.

    so in the picture the roles have been reversed with hyypia being the goal keeper and reina the defender.

    so REF is that why this has been given offside.

    if so this is so confusing so the situation arises that a defender stays on the line and everybody rushes out including the keeper leaving lone attacker near goal line in front of everybody bar the defender on the line and the ball ends up at him then even though there is a defender on the line , he is technically offside.

    i just asume the last opponent is reference to the goal keeper and the second last opponent then refers to the outfield players but looking at this and reading the rule , my interpretation is seems wrong (not for first time ).

    another example that can happening goal keeper goes into box of opponents leaving lone defender in own half and counter attack involving two players head into opposition half, player two is ahead of player 1 but in line with lone defender ball gets played to him from player 1 he is offside cause he is front of ball and second last opponent.

    can you assist me with clarifying these two situations are they offside or onside?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jock MIB View Post
    Now this offside rule is really confusing me,

    looking at picture Bentner is behind Hyppia and reina has went out to the ball.

    The rule says he or she is offside when ther are nearer to his opponents goal line than both the ball and the second last opponent.

    so in the picture the roles have been reversed with hyypia being the goal keeper and reina the defender.

    so REF is that why this has been given offside.

    if so this is so confusing so the situation arises that a defender stays on the line and everybody rushes out including the keeper leaving lone attacker near goal line in front of everybody bar the defender on the line and the ball ends up at him then even though there is a defender on the line , he is technically offside.

    i just asume the last opponent is reference to the goal keeper and the second last opponent then refers to the outfield players but looking at this and reading the rule , my interpretation is seems wrong (not for first time ).

    another example that can happening goal keeper goes into box of opponents leaving lone defender in own half and counter attack involving two players head into opposition half, player two is ahead of player 1 but in line with lone defender ball gets played to him from player 1 he is offside cause he is front of ball and second last opponent.

    can you assist me with clarifying these two situations are they offside or onside?
    The Laws state 2nd last opponent, in the vast majority of cases (about 99%), as you state, the last opponent is the goalkeeper, leaving an outfield player as the 2nd last opponent. You seem to have become so accustomed to seeing the goalkeeper as the last opponent, that all you look for now, is the last outfield opponent.

    In your frist example the player is offside as there is only one opponent between him and the goal.

    In your second example the player is offside as there is only one opponent between him and the goal.

    You may even have a case where the goalkeeper is in fact the 3rd last oppenent

    example: at a corner a goalkeeper goes to the ball, an attacker wins it and the ball drops to an attacker 1 yard out and there are two defenders standing at the posts. The player here is onside as there are two opponents between him and the goal.
    Smile........ it confuses people

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBoss View Post
    Here is the best picture from another thread

    http://foot.ie/showpost.php?p=912174&postcount=30

    Carragher's hand is on line and therefore the player has to be onside.
    Yes Carragher's hand is on the line but that would take some really eagle eye'd linesman to spot that one!!!
    ”That should be NO problem for the defence – OH NOOOO!!”
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    If a player is on his way towards goal and is taken down by the last defender is it not a red card to defender as he is last man back.???

    If a team starts a game in yellow gear and get soaked to the skin from rain. second half they arrive out with blue gear also worn by the opposite teams goal keeper. Is this not a clash of jerseys.???

    A player is booked for mouthing to the ref about a free kick given against him. He has fouled at least 3 or 4 time prior to booking, he continues to give away free after free but stays on the pitch and continues to abuse ref. Is this the norm???
    If you're in the penalty area and don't know what to do with the ball, put it in the net and we'll discuss the options later

    FORM IS TEMPORARY, CLASS IS PERMANENT

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    Quote Originally Posted by smellyfeet View Post
    If a player is on his way towards goal and is taken down by the last defender is it not a red card to defender as he is last man back.???

    If a team starts a game in yellow gear and get soaked to the skin from rain. second half they arrive out with blue gear also worn by the opposite teams goal keeper. Is this not a clash of jerseys.???

    A player is booked for mouthing to the ref about a free kick given against him. He has fouled at least 3 or 4 time prior to booking, he continues to give away free after free but stays on the pitch and continues to abuse ref. Is this the norm???
    What Game and When?

  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by smellyfeet View Post
    If a player is on his way towards goal and is taken down by the last defender is it not a red card to defender as he is last man back.???

    If a team starts a game in yellow gear and get soaked to the skin from rain. second half they arrive out with blue gear also worn by the opposite teams goal keeper. Is this not a clash of jerseys.???

    A player is booked for mouthing to the ref about a free kick given against him. He has fouled at least 3 or 4 time prior to booking, he continues to give away free after free but stays on the pitch and continues to abuse ref. Is this the norm???

    Question 1. If the foul denies a genuine goal scoring opportunity and there are no other defenders that could intercept the player - the player should be dismissed

    Question 2. A bit of common sense is needed here. The Law books doesn't cover this scenario but if one team changes their jerseys you would ask the goalkeeper would he mind changing his. Theoretically you could force the goalkeeper to change as Law 4 states "each goalkeeper wears colours that distinguish him players, the referee and the assistant referees" but as he was using this jersey in the first half I don't think it would be fair to force him to change.

    Question 3 dissent is a cautionable offense as is persistently infringing the laws of the game, however the referee must take into account factors such as the length of time between free kicks. Its a tough one and one that on the balance most referees get right.
    Smile........ it confuses people

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    Player get his marching orders, and leave's the field of play.
    Players manager confronts the ref and tells him that his team
    has a big cup match few days later and that the player would
    be a big lose for that game as he was sent off and would be due
    suspension in next game......wait for this one......Ref tells player
    to come back onto the pitch and change's red card to a yellow..

    Is this allowed??
    Is this crackers??
    Is this making a mockery of the beautiful game??
    Who can ref be reported to apart from the Guards??
    If you're in the penalty area and don't know what to do with the ball, put it in the net and we'll discuss the options later

    FORM IS TEMPORARY, CLASS IS PERMANENT

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