Originally Posted by Speranza
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Without wishing to be too defensive, you are exaggerating (we didn't take hundreds to Iceland, and of those only a minority would have been jack-waving, if you're talking about the qualifying game for 2002). We lost 0-1, the Fermanagh fumbler throwing one in late in the second half. I'd say mildly eccentric rather than farcical, partic. since I imagine most Islanders aren't that bothered by the nuances of national icdentity in Northern Ireland. But there is less of a hardline unionist atmosphere at games now, which is welcome.The last time I saw NI away supporters close up was here in Iceland a few years ago. Then there were a few hundred union jack clad gstq billy boys, looked even more farcical in a foreign context. Yesterday at the Finland game, the camera caught the away support many times, they looked kinda normal healthy football supporters.The change is phenonomal. Is this for real?
I think most of 'them' are still there (given that crowds at our games are rising overall), but there's more internal criticism of their attitudes. So they've stopped treating games as a loyalist love-in. Hardly any have been directly excluded.Is there some avoidance about the question? Where have they all gone? Was there a collective unconcious decision to forgo this apparel and overt bigotry? did they run out of money? were they regarded as persona not grata inside the NI football supporters club? Were they photographed and banned? Did they just simply not turn up anymore? How did it happen?
Agreed. Some personal modern-ish choices would be,As for GSTQ what a dirge, just my personal opinion, (and that of many others i'm sure judging by the number of players singing it!). Would be nice to change it for a unique NI sporting anthem - probably not going to happen though...
* Gloria- Van the Man's original garage anthem
* Alternative Ulster- the Rigid Digits
* Days of Pearly Spencer- about a wino in Ballymena
* Religious persuasion- Any White (heh, only joking)
I can only remember back to the mid 70s NI games, so can't compare with the 60s, but there was certainly plenty of nationalist support for NI then, despite the violence. Of course my evidence is largely anecdotal, but it can be seen in the media of the time, especially around the 1982 World Cup. I lived in Dublin from 1980-84 and there was also plenty of support for NI as a second side, which you'd see rather less now. This reflects, in part, that the Republic never qualified for anything before 1988.You are quite correct, in the past there was more Catholic fans. That was during the 80's when we were successful. As a passing note there was 10 times more sectarianism than there is now so the claim that this is what put Catholics off does not hold much credence, does it?
No...it was in the 60's and ealry 70's, when Sectarianism then reared it's ugly head and forced alot of Nationalists away
I'll accept that it can sound churlish, but there was institutionalised sectarianism both generally and specifically around football, for years while nationalists continued to support NI. And during many of those years, in the 70s, NI were pretty mediocre. It's not simplistic to see relative success for the Republic as a clear factor for reduced support for NI.Regardless, it is both churlish and naively simplistic to suggest that the catholics turned their back on Norn Iron solely or even primarily because of results. Little things like having to listen to hundreds of people openly abuse them/their religion on matchday, and players receiving death threats etc, might have had an even greater impact don't you think....?
It's still personal abuse, alas.he called your post deranged, not you
I can see why Steve and others would criticise this, although threads passim suggest he was quite relaxed (or apathetic, maybe) about the team moving to, in effect, a loyalist part of Lisburn, rather than the Belfast centre site that most NI fans clearly prefer...A team that play in a Loyalist part of Belfast
No, they've suggested that there is a current security issue. Which many Linfield fans are confident can be resolved by the clubs without it becoming a big political issue.Have our visits to the Brandywell not shown that the IFA were right in not letting you back in as it is not safe for Linfield to visit the Brandywell?
Agreed to the anthem; something including the red hand; Ormeau Park is neutral even if the Maze/ Lisburn site isn't. We have the basis of a compromise...I'd therefore like some sort of neutral anthem rather than GSTQ. I'd ideally like the NI Assembly to come up with it's own flag - one that again favours no side over the other, and that the people of Norn Iron can unite behind, rather than shake at each otehr to further fragment us. I'd even prefer the old Stormont flag to the Union flag, as at least it's local - but the bottom line is that that flag was designed to portray the 'Britishness' of Northern Ireland, and is therefore inherently one-sided. I'd like to see games played in a more neutral part of the province - which appears to be being addressed
You aren't comparing like with like. Support for a football team is important, voting in a border poll more important. So one won't directly follow form the other in many cases.Having Nationalists alienated from the Northern Irish football team and instead giving their allegiances to the Republic, therefore, actively works against this !
Hmm. I'm afraid that implies that you accept the democratic decision (majority support for partition) now, but might not in the future. Since you're personally likely to remain opposed to partition, and since the overall support for it is also unlikely to disappear, what are you suggesting? That you might become more politicised by Linfield fans arguing on a message board? Seems a bit over the top. BTW, I wouldn't express opinions like that anywhere near Walthamstow, Wycombe or the US immigration queue at Heathrow, Ye know how jumpy Inspector Knacker is here at the mo, he'd have ye in Belmarsh in no time...It's noth the hardcore Republicans you need to worry about - it's the moderate nationalists like me, who accept the Union in the absence of a majority demand for an alternative, who are the group who could make or break the Union at soem point!
If Blatter axes anthems etc. completely, NI fans aren't going to sulk any more than Kazakhs, Israelis or anyone else I'd guess. And, inter alia, the NI team is represented by many nationalist players, coaches etc. even if fewer supporters.However - whilst the NI fanbase is so predominately Unionist/Loyalist, how likely is it that they would accept having an NI team that no longer exclusively reflects their identity ?
Rather a roundabout argument there. You think it has dim future because you don't think it should exist. We are quite happy that it exists, ergo we disagree that per se it has a dim future. Really, if you think the argument is futile, why not just ignore it?It verifies your opinion to a certain extent but the way in which NI fans behave makes for a dim future for NI football. It is sad in this day and age that an activity such as going to a football match should be seen as one enjoyed by only one community
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