QuoteExcellent posts there by Lux and posts that I would be in complete agreement with.
[QUOTE=dcfcsteve;517737] Yet people like you feel that only one community should 'own' the team exclusively - a British team for a British people - even
[QUOTE]
Steve, "people like you" need to realise that many NI supporters are Irish and proud of it. They are also comfortable with their Britishness and don't see the two as mutually exclusive.
Do you?
The only Irish club to win a European trophy.
Excellent posts there by Lux and posts that I would be in complete agreement with.
I do. In fact, if you look at the Passports thread, I went to great lengths to explain this concept to other posters.Originally Posted by Lux Interior
Steve, "people like you" need to realise that many NI supporters are Irish and proud of it. They are also comfortable with their Britishness and don't see the two as mutually exclusive.
Do you?
Meanwhile, I wasn't the one coming out with the archaic 'Don't take our identity away - we're a British team for a British people, so put up with it' nonesense. Perhaps its Dvaid who needs to realise that the days of official institutions in the north being the preserve of one side or the other are over ?
Regardless of British or Irish - can we not have a Northern Irish team for the Northern Irish people ? One that isn't dressed up with either British or Irish symbolism. Is that really too much to ask in this day and age ?
Have you not chosen to support the Republic Of Ireland Steve?
Regardless of British or Irish - can we not have a Northern Irish team for the Northern Irish people ? One that isn't dressed up with either British or Irish symbolism. Is that really too much to ask in this day and age ?
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
What I don't understand though, is that Wales and Scotland fans don't see the need to display their 'Britishness' through flags etc, despite the general consensus among them being that they acknowledge themselves as British.
Yes - so what ?
That doesn't then remove my right to have a say or opinion on matters regarding the place of my birth.
Also - being an ROI fan wouldn't stop be being an active NI fan either. I'm a Derry City supporter first and foremost, but I would also support our nearest neighbours Finn Harps (I go and watch them when I'm home if I can't make a Derry game. As I also do with Institute, coincidentally). I want Harps to do well, though obviously not on the few occassions they meet Derry. Is see no contradiction in carrying this over to the international fold with the 2 teams form the island.
Over time, there would be no reason why my allegiance couldn't switch back primarily to the North either. Derry's UEFA Cup run this year has really confirmed them first and foremost as my true footballing love, and started me to question why I go to so many ROI games when it doesn't mean half as much to me as City does. I like to keep things as local as possible, and NI is much more 'local' to be than the ROI. I therefore wouldn't rule out a time when the North could be of more importance to me than ROI - but that's unlikely to happen whilst it's a 'British team for a British people' (to paraphrase David).
And is this really the only response a plea to have an NI team without the symbolism of either community can elicit ?
I do. In fact, if you look at the Passports thread, I went to great lengths to explain this concept to other posters.
Meanwhile, I wasn't the one coming out with the archaic 'Don't take our identity away - we're a British team for a British people, so put up with it' nonesense. Perhaps its Dvaid who needs to realise that the days of official institutions in the north being the preserve of one side or the other are over ?
Regardless of British or Irish - can we not have a Northern Irish team for the Northern Irish people ? One that isn't dressed up with either British or Irish symbolism. Is that really too much to ask in this day and age ?
Nowhere have I said that it is a British team for British people. however, whether some like it or not the fact is that Northern Ireland is a British country and there is therefore nothing wrong with us displaying the British flag and singing the British national anthem.
their choice at the end of the day although I know many Scottish people who will not support the Scottish team for this very reason.
Why do you not support Northern Ireland Steve?And is this really the only response a plea to have an NI team without the symbolism of either community can elicit ?
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
This bit I do undertand (even if I don't like it).
The Britishness of Wales and Scotland isn't questioned, whilst it is for NI. It's therefore basically about insecurity.
Still no excuse for having a supposedly national instituion dressed up in the symbolism of only one community. That is indefensible - which is why the only responses here have been either deranged (e.g. David) or questioning my right to question (e.g. Not Brazil).
Well out of order Steve. One thing to debate something but to resort to personal insults?
I haven't questioned your right to question Steve...stop telling porkies.
Why do you not support Northern Ireland?
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
David, he called your post deranged, not you.
[QUOTE=dcfcsteve;517959]
Still no excuse for having a supposedly national instituion dressed up in the symbolism of only one community. QUOTE]
What like?
Players from both communities.
Green shirts.
Celtic Cross badge.
Shamrocks.
"Irish" Football Association.
Can you not support that Steve?
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
Whilst this has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that an NI team shouldn't be dressed-up in either a British or an Irish identity, I'll ingratiate you with your little detour.
It goes back to 1985 for me. I supported NI in the 1982 World Cup as a kid, as did most of my mates at the time.
Then in 1985, Derry City finally got back into senior footnall - after years of being snubbed by the IFA. I got the bug - City games home and away became a massive part of my life as a young kid, and I was hugely grateful that the FAI had given us the chance of being back in the game. A chance that our own supposed guardians of the game had consistently refused on very dubious grounds.
Therefore - when it came to Mexico 86, being honest I found it difficult to support the NI team any more. The ROI team were no great shakes at the time (though they did narrowly miss out on qualification for Mexico), though as my footballing universe revolved around the FAI it should be no great surprise that I became increasingly interested in football matters in Dublin. So, my allegiances started to shift before the Republic were 'good' and before the North became 'bad' - because of my footballing frame of reference (Derry in the LOI). I wasn't following glory - I felt a sense of loyalty to the FAI/Republic for helping my team, and zero loyalty to the north for trying to destroy my team. This would've been a broadly felt sentiment in Derry at the time, where we were getting crowds of 10,000 at home games (i.e. alot of people started to draw the same conclusion).
As I got older, incidents like Anton Rogan, Neil Lennon, the NI v ROI games in the early 1990's etc made me thankful that I wasn't a supporter of the north any more - reinforcing my decision further.
Could I ever support the north again ? Yes - most definitely. But what you need to realise is that the Unionist trappings the team has chosen to tie itself up in make it the footballing equivalent of a drive through Macosquin for me. I don't feel comfortable going through areas with red, white, and blue kerbstones and flags on lamposts, and the concept of supporting a one-sided northern team makes me feel the same way. Please try and understand and accept this - rather than just question and/or attack it.
[QUOTE=Not Brazil;517971]
What like ?
Union Flag
Stormont Flag
God Save the Queen
A team that play in a Loyalist part of Belfast
Thankfully dying, but nonetheless still existant, terrace sectarianism
Keep questioning it Not Brazil. There's a danger you might actually understand at some point.....
Last edited by dcfcsteve; 18/08/2006 at 11:22 AM.
[QUOTE=dcfcsteve;517976]I'm not David, Steve.
Thanks for your reply - it is very revealing.
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
[QUOTE=Not Brazil;517993]Apologies (and amended above).
And they say it's unionists who are confused about their identity.
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
Have our visits to the Brandywell not shown that the IFA were right in not letting you back in as it is not safe for Linfield to visit the Brandywell?
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