Seaon
No offence but one word
MACEDONIA
This may prove to be a tactical masterstroke from Staunton. Kerr's biggest failing was in managing expectations: we beat Czech Republic, Portugal, Netherlands away, drew with Brazil and France away - so people were disgusted that we couldn't beat Israel.
After the last two games, anything less than a 4-0 defeat in Stuttgart will be viewed as "a step in the right direction". Getting a point will have people calling for Stan to be canonised!
SIGNATURESCOPE
Would tend to agree with you or maybe we had better players back then...Originally Posted by Seano
No leaders to be seen anywhere
I know it was only a friendly and we were missing 3 or 4 players that will be in the starting 11 against the Germans but I'm still very, very worried about September the 2nd. All we can hope is that Staunton has learned from his mistakes and can change things around in time. A lot of us here will agree that his squad selection was a bit strange. So let's hope he's man enough to admit that and never makes those mistakes again. It was a terrible result but if he has learned some of the following points from the game then it may not be as bad as it looks.
- O'Shea cannot be relied on as a back-up CB and he needs to have other options in future squads i.e. Doc, maybe Coughlan and try somehow to blood McCarthy and McShane.
- I myself though Kilbane would make a decent LB but it was obvious from last night that he doesn't have the correct positioning and shouldn't be risked there again unless we have nobody else.
- It's time to forget about Kav, he's unfortunately just not up to it at international level.
- McGeady is well capable at this level
- Doyle is a better option than Morrisson and has to start against the Germans.
- Our second and 3rd choice keepers need more internalional exposure (Kerr can be blamed for that too as he played loads of friendlies with given in goal)
- We need as many friendlies as possible in between the competitive games to blood the youngsters and get the team used to playing together.
Last night was painfull but if he takes on these points something will have been gained from the game.
Taking on these points, and with the return of the injured players, we can only play better than last night. I reckon we will still be missing one or two of the key players for the German game though, or else they won'T be very match fit.
He stilll has to decide who is going to be the best partner for Reid in CMF and if Harte or O'Shea should play at LB. Of course he needs to improve his tactics and getting the team to play as a unit rather than as individuals.
I hope 2 weeks is enough time to do all that
I had to laugh at Dunphy today in the Star saying Staunton must go.
The players must go...if we could get rid of them.
Our centre mid is terrible.They are meant to be the link between defence and attack and all they could do is hoof up long balls to two woeful attackers.Elliot was on cloud nine for the game and looked like he had lead in his boots and Morrision once again showed why the words "touch" and "chainsaw" usually are found in a sentence with his name.
We never got the ball out wide so our wingers could have a run or even play a few balls into the corner for them to run on to.John O'Shea looked way out of sorts at centre half.
Players can't keep hiding behind the manager.I dont care if we see them try their best and we loose four nil but last night was a joke.
The one thing it shows is that we have a really thin squad and hopefully or injured players will be back for Germany.
In other words we will be happy to roll along on the moral victory route,something we need to get over.At least the punters with the big plastic hammers and fake ginger beards will be happy
MOT
I can't stand dunphy but i can't say i blame anyone who thinks stan should not have been hired. I always thought that an international manager needs to be a wiley old fox who has seen it all. A guy who makes inspired substitutions and is always a step ahead of his rival no matter what his resources as regards talent in the squad, sure big jack had some great players but he knew how to negate the other more talented teams and how to make a tactical change . the full range of his knowledge was used in the ireland job , i don't think stan has enough knowledge or enough nous in the managerial game and i think we will suffer as he learns the ropes...
as far as i can see even coming ahead of slovakia is a big ask and if we cannot come ahead of the welsh we are in serious trouble
Was he crazy!! Yeah , in a very special way , an Irishman.
I slept, and dreamed that life was Beauty;
I woke, and found that life was Duty.
At least this will put an end to the clamour for Kilbane to be played at left-back.
McGeady was our most creative player in an attacking sense, but he didn't put in the graft defensively and I'm not sure he has the defensive know-how to do so. It will be a risk trying to accommodate both him and Duff in the same team.
I didn't expect much from the game last night. With no Duff in midfield, we had little to offer creatively, I knew that much beforehand. Without Keane upfront, we were missing our one proven goalscorer who is playing consistently well in one of the best leagues in the world. Without Dunne in defence, we were missing our best defender and the loss of Given was huge. Those four players would be in the top 10 in their positions in the Premiership (Given in the top 4) so losing them has a massive influence on how good we are. Given how strong the Dutch are, I didn't expect us to beat them and feared a loss.
What I didn't expect was the players to play so woefully. I thought Kavanagh made some good challenges but the ball was lost so much through the midfield. More than that, though, Miller and Douglas weren't much better technically but you could see that they both wanted it more.
Myself and my friend stood on the north terrace and watched the differences in the two teams. When we had the ball, the Dutch pressed on us. We never had space and lost the ball constantly. When they had the ball, we stood back. They had so much time to just move it up the pitch, pass by pass.
We were perfectly positioned at one point to see Steven Elliott call for the ball in the first half. He was by himself and a gap had opened up in the Dutch midfield. Andy O'Brien got on to it but instead of passing it straight to Elliott, he just booted it over his head, as the defence and midfield did for the entire first half.
I don't like some of the stick that Kilbane and Morrison get, mainly because they've worked their arses off for us many times. And last night was just a friendly, just one game, albeit a miserable one. But I feel that Morrison has no real place up front now. With Doyle and Keane in the Premiership and with Elliott looking much quicker, more enthusiastic and sharper, his place may be outside those three.
Kilbane's only future in the team is as a stopgap left full until we find one who isn't Ian Harte. He was shocking last night.
As for Staunton, he's only three games in, let's reserve judgement for the moment. Hasty 'analysis' of a coach this soon helps no one. Return to the issue when this campaign is over. In terms of last night, though, there was a clear lack of organisation and effort.
In the second half, McGeady had skipped past two players and passed it, except that there was no one to pass it to. McGeady ended up looking bad but the bloke had taken on two players and beaten them, where was the support? Where was the effort? It's that that concerns me, not the result.
When I was leaving Lansdowne having watched Ireland fail to beat the Swiss at home last year, I thought to myself that, having watching such a tepid, lame bunch of players let down themselves and the fans, surely it would be worth it just to throw in a bunch of kids who really want to be there. We'd probably get beat in every game but at least these lads would be enthusiastic. For that reason, I enjoyed most of the second half, watching Doyle, Elliott, McGeady, Douglas, Miller and O'Brien. They don't look like world beaters but they're not bad, they want to be there. More importantly, they don't expect to be there. I wouldn't shed a tear for Kilbane, Carr or Morrison. They've had more than enough chances and I'm not sure what they have to offer anymore.
We are far weaker defensively than both in midfield and up front which could be seen last night and is very worrying.
Last edited by youngirish; 17/08/2006 at 12:18 PM.
I agree totally, and interestingly I had a pint with Stan after Micks last game in charge and agreed with him (Stan) that Mick should stay and that 2 results dont make you good or bad, etc, little did we know he'd be managing the team in a few years, and for the superstitious who did i bump into last night but Packie (is he our man in waiting?)
Either way the only results that count are the qualifiers and lets see how we are doing after the 2 games in Croker. The target is 18 points from our 1st 7 games, ie wins against Cyprus A Czech H San Marino H & A Wales H and Slovakia H. If we manage that the result in Stuttgart will not matter a lot so lets just concentrate on getting behind the team and building a new side.
Yeah, Duff and Keane were very lazy last night
"Jacques Santini...will be greeted in every dugout of the country by "one-nil, one-nil" - Clive Tyldsley, 89th minute of France-England June 13, 2004.
"Ooooohhhh Nooooooo" Bobby Robson 91st minute.
[QUOTE=Donal81;517351] For that reason, I enjoyed most of the second half, watching Doyle, Elliott, McGeady, Douglas, Miller and O'Brien. They don't look like world beaters but they're not bad, they want to be there. QUOTE]
Yep. I've not really got much to add to what's already been said by everyone, but i do agree that the lads that came on at half time deserve credit for the effort they put into what was already a lost cause. With a little more composure from O'Brien it could have been 2-1 early in the 2nd half. Shame.
What i just dont get is why the defence was so disorganised though? Carr/O'Brien/O'Shea/Finnan, its not that makeshift is it?
And each to their own n'all, but booing and walking out has nothing but a negative effect on the players and their morale.
agree on both points, even saw a guy with a ROI supporters club jacket leaving early. Its easy to support a team when they are winning all the time.
Pathetic, Useless, Clueless, too many words to describe.
Staunton was shown up for inexperienced veteran player he is as he most certainly is not a Manager. He may become a manager eventually but senior International level is not the place to learn your trade.
Delaney should resign alongside Staunton.
Tactics:
- Had no clue how to defend against 3 forwards with 2 wide players.
- 451 sh!te when not in possession was a joke - moving forward to wide position & pushing winger like McGeady into central position was comical.
- No idea what to do when had possession besides hoof the ball into the corners.
Players:
- Carr should have stayed retired as no better than the last few years of woeful performances.
- He might have done ok in the past but recent games has been terrible & debatable if worthy of squad place.
- Kavanagh has never been better than ok so time to move on.
- O'Shea is no central defender.
Overall was the Managers fault as his "systems" were totally inflexible with no plan B so he unable to change things on the pitch. Only changes made at half time where he probably had Bobby of speaker phone.
Lads
a couple of points
We were brutal last night especially the first half when Marco Van Basten could of had a game as they were under so little pressure
Morrison had feck all service apart from the ball being hoofed up aimlessly damn all decent crosses nor through balls so unless you expect him to do a Maradona goal V england WC 1986 you are going to be disappointed.
Marco Van Basten in his prime would have struggled with that service - (and no i am not compering the two so dont even go there)
Attacking wise I think we could have a very dangerous formation in
McGeady........................................... Duff
...............Keane Doyle/Elliott/Morrison.............
For this to work we need two strong defensive fullbacks (i.e. they don't need to be bombing up the touchline!) and two strong central midfielders, with one being more of a holding role.
Finnan meets the RB criteria but Im not sure that Oshea or Harte does for the LB though?
Don't shoot me for this, I know Kilbane was pretty awful last night, but one of his better performances for us was in the middle, at the Stade de France, where he was pretty impressive. He wins plenty of ball in the air, a decent enough tackler, has pace and energy to get back and cover his defence. Could he play a role as one of the strong defensive type midfielders?
Just a thought..........................
I thought you were off the drink Ronnie?
"No, I drink to help me mind my own business....can I get you one? (c) Ronnie Drew
As bad as last night was there is a positive to be taken from it. The fact is we were missing a lot of players. Of the players that did not start last night you could make up a pretty good team
e.g.
Given
Kelly Dunne Doherty/McCarthy Harte
A.Reid J.O'Brien S.Ireland Duff
Keane Doyle
It's not all doom and gloom. Last night was useful in that we learnt that Kavanagh is not up to it at this level and should be dropped from the squad. Douglas showed that he is more aggressive and mobile and imposed himself more on the game.
I think Staunton needs to shake this squad up. We need to get rid of the dead wood and fast track some of the younger players. He's started to do that with Dixon, O'Brien but they play in positions where we are pretty well covered. We need to start looking at centre half, centre midfield and left back.
In hindsight, what I thought was a good idea at the time, we should have played more friendlies during the summer. The summer camp is a good idea when we have a settled system and squad but it's not going to help much in identifying and bring through players. I think we would have been better served if the squad had been brought on a tour and played a few games.
Stauton has had no away friendly yet & i fear for his ability to cope with the extra demands of such a game. International manager cannot reply improve players but have to pick & correct system & players alongside the proper leadership.
Erh no! Its been downhill since Charlton left. I fear that we will end up looking at 1987-1994 as being the never to be revisted golden era of Irish football (the 2002 WC qualification was a one-man-show one-off).
Together with all our hearts.
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