Revenue After Shels Again

[Stato]

They'll have it paid by then, remember they still have an asset in their lease at Tolka Park which is keeping them going. Dublin City didn't have that luxury, neither did Cork City I presume.

[pineapple stu]

True. But it's quite clear that they're simply unviable as they continue. Long-term, they'll have to make serious cut-backs to survive.

[Stato]

Not necessarily. They're taking a big gamble but one day it might just pay off.

Why own an asset that's earning you very little money. Turn that asset into hard cash that can be used to fund a team capable of reaching the group stages of the Champions League and you'll have sufficient income thereafter to keep you on top a la Rosenborg.

It doesn't cost much to rent a ground, I'm open to correction but I think Rovers have been paying between €50,000 and €75,000 a year, hardly worth keeping an asset worth maybe 100 or 200 times that to avoid that cost every year (assuming you manage and use the money properly).

That's the theory, it could very well prove to be true but it's a win-or-die gamble at the end of the day.

[pineapple stu]

It doesn't cost much to rent a ground, I'm open to correction but I think Rovers have been paying between €50,000 and €75,000 a year, hardly worth keeping an asset worth maybe 100 or 200 times that to avoid that cost every year (assuming you manage and use the money properly).

Don't they only own the lease on the ground, though, not the ground itself?

It's a big assumption you're making too!

[Stato]

Don't they only own the lease on the ground, though, not the ground itself?

It's a big assumption you're making too!

Leases on a piece of ground that size in Dublin are extremely valuable. Assume Shels have even 25 years left on their lease, you'll find plenty of builders offering seven or eight figure sums to get their hands on it now rather than waiting 25 years to see what might happen.

Site values that close to Dublin will fetch from €60,000 to €100,000 per unit. If they (the developers) get permission to build up five or six storeys they could easily fit 300 or 400 apartments into the current Tolka. Shels' lease should is sufficiently long to see them get around 40% of that value.

I've dealt with many of these sorts of transactions in my work over the last 15 years.

[pineapple stu]

How long's the lease on the ground though?

[Schwalker]

Leases on a piece of ground that size in Dublin are extremely valuable. Assume Shels have even 25 years left on their lease, you'll find plenty of builders offering seven or eight figure sums to get their hands on it now rather than waiting 25 years to see what might happen.

Site values that close to Dublin will fetch from €60,000 to €100,000 per unit. If they (the developers) get permission to build up five or six storeys they could easily fit 300 or 400 apartments into the current Tolka. Shels' lease should is sufficiently long to see them get around 40% of that value.

I've dealt with many of these sorts of transactions in my work over the last 15 years.

But the club will need a stadium regardless...

[pineapple stu]

Government grants will sort a lot out in that regard.

[Schwalker]

Government grants will sort a lot out in that regard.

They will..?

They will fork out the money for a new stadium while the club is laughing all the way to the bank?

[OneRedArmy]

Regardless of whether or not Shels pay up just before the deadline again, waiting until you've been petitioned to pay every tax bill is a kamikaze way of doing business and looks terrible for the League.

Yet again it seems Ollie thinks he's getting the last laugh by continually taking a confrontational attitude, but as the saying goes, he who laughs last usually doesn't get the joke......

[pineapple stu]

They will..?

They will fork out the money for a new stadium while the club is laughing all the way to the bank?

Sorry, could put that better.

Yeah, they'll have to find somewhere to play. But the Government will give help to improve the ground.

Don't know if the Government would given financial aid with a greenfield site. If so, then Shels (or any club) could in theory use the money to fund the team and go down the current Shels road over and over. I presume the Government would cop on to that and stop it fairly quickly though.

[Schwalker]

Sorry, could put that better.

Yeah, they'll have to find somewhere to play. But the Government will give help to improve the ground.

Don't know if the Government would given financial aid with a greenfield site. If so, then Shels (or any club) could in theory use the money to fund the team and go down the current Shels road over and over. I presume the Government would cop on to that and stop it fairly quickly though.

It did sound a bit to easy...

[dcfcsteve]

Not necessarily. They're taking a big gamble but one day it might just pay off.

Why own an asset that's earning you very little money. Turn that asset into hard cash that can be used to fund a team capable of reaching the group stages of the Champions League and you'll have sufficient income thereafter to keep you on top a la Rosenborg.

It doesn't cost much to rent a ground, I'm open to correction but I think Rovers have been paying between €50,000 and €75,000 a year, hardly worth keeping an asset worth maybe 100 or 200 times that to avoid that cost every year (assuming you manage and use the money properly).

That's the theory, it could very well prove to be true but it's a win-or-die gamble at the end of the day.

Agree to some degree, but there's a fundamental problem with draining the lifeblood out of an asset. Eventually there's nothing left !

At least an asset grows in value with time, and can therefore continue to support you. Following Shels approach will see the complete opposite - the golden goose is slowly dying.

Football has plenty of corpses of much more viable teams than Shels who took the 'gamble' of success. Clubs stretching themselves a bit in pursuit of success is sensible. Clubs stretching themselves to the point of breaking/disaster is just too big a gamble to take.

[bohs til i die]

Stato

Shels have already done a deal on the Tolka lease and have been receive cash from the developer over the past few years. There are rumours circulating that Shels have to be out of Tolka very soon [I heard it from a Shels fan to begin with].

The lease may have been worth a lot once but its only a few months since Ollie had to stump up over 300k to the revenue so I wonder how he got that? My guess is he got it from the developer who in turn will give Ollie 400k less when the time comes to settle up on the lease.

[Ronnie]

If Shels and Cork only owe 20k a month they must be doing very well. George OCallaghan said he was earning 120kpa, and that 3 other players at City were on over a 100k. Now, at 400k for 4 players the tax and PRSI would be 10k per month -does that mean that everyone else in the clubs tax and PRSI only comes to the same? Unlikely I think.

[monutdfc]

Not necessarily. They're taking a big gamble but one day it might just pay off.

Why own an asset that's earning you very little money. Turn that asset into hard cash that can be used to fund a team capable of reaching the group stages of the Champions League and you'll have sufficient income thereafter to keep you on top a la Rosenborg.
...
...
That's the theory, it could very well prove to be true but it's a win-or-die gamble at the end of the day.

Stato, I think Ollie has already taken that gamble....and he's down to his last few chips

[BohsPartisan]

Shels cannot be allowed get away with this. They have the most expensive squad in the league yet they can't make their commitments to the taxman. They really should have points deducted for this. This season is a farce.

[Dodge]

If Shels and Cork only owe 20k a month they must be doing very well. George OCallaghan said he was earning 120kpa, and that 3 other players at City were on over a 100k. Now, at 400k for 4 players the tax and PRSI would be 10k per month -does that mean that everyone else in the clubs tax and PRSI only comes to the same? Unlikely I think.

Sounds about right, Cork always pay less than the Dublin clubs for the non "star name" players as most of the players come from Cork and have no other offers for them. In Dublin you've 4-5 clubs looking to make you an offer if you're any use. Before anyone starts I'm not trying to have a go at Cork here.

[charliesboots]

Regardless of whether or not Shels pay up just before the deadline again, waiting until you've been petitioned to pay every tax bill is a kamikaze way of doing business and looks terrible for the League.

They will also have to pay all legal costs of the High Court proceedings as they did for the previous winding up order.

It seems to me that Shels restructured their payments to the RC after their previous winding up order and that one of the conditions attached was that any default of payment would result in an immediate application to the high court for a winding up order. Can't blame the RC

[wws]

hopefully thats the last we hear of shels from now on

i look forward to the arguments on here on what we should do with theie "expunged" results.


Thankfully Pats thought ahead and lost to them earlier in the season