QuoteWe have a common enemy!
First of all, it's only an opinion I have and not something I spend an awful lot of time thinking about really. Although I actually never mentioned the word 'barstooler' once in that post I get the jist of your point but for every eL supporter I know who may have a 'cross word' to say to or about a 'barstooler' I could count 100 times when I've been dissed or, when I'm asked and I say that I support Bohs I am then asked "No, who do you really support... in England".Originally Posted by 4tothefloor
Firstly, that's a great synopsis of everything that's WRONG with EL fans. Barstoolers this, barstoolers that.......fascinated with themNot just you Charles, every second poster on foot seems to have this disease. Everything seems to be geared towards giving two fingers to the barstoolers and proving them wrong. It's sad and pathetic IMO. Do you know why? 'Cos the barstoolers don't give a sh!t! If they did they'd be going to LOI games in the first place. EL fans should be concentrating on the EL and forgetting about the barstoolers. Stop trying to justify the EL to those who aren't interested. Instead of proudly rejoicing Derry's win, all you see/hear is 'fcuk the barstoolers, that'll show 'em now'. They don't even care! It reminds me of Pat Spillane on the Sunday game, especially after a good match, always having to refer to Hurling/Pukeball as superior to soccer/rugby/he even mentioned formula 1 on one occasion - "You wouldn't see soccer players putting in the skill levels on show today Tomás?"......as I said, it smacks of pure pathetic......
Secondly, it's possible to be a passionate fan of clubs in two different leagues, ie. being an EL fan and an EPL/SPL/SeriaA/La Liga. A lot of fans on here like that, including myself with Limerick FC/Liverpool.
Thirdly, Liverpool FC is not a corporation. I'm pretty sure Arsenal the same.
I also don't agree with you that to have this opinion is actually 'WRONG' as such. In fact, I don't even necessarily think it's right. What would be wrong is if you shove it down everybody's throat at every given opportunity, which is not something that either I or any my eL supporting friends actually do. If I do mention it it is normally here on this MB or on the Bohs message board - with trusted eL supporters if you like.
If on the other hand you think that it is sad and pathetic that eL supporters feel the need to prove themselves to others then that's a valid opinion to have if a little harsh. For eL supporters are the downtrodden ones who get the bad press in the newspapers, whether it's supporters of one team or another having a row or if it just happens to be some bored 'reporter' advocating the killing of our league and the slaughter of all the eL supporters (not too long ago in the Sunday Tribune - also used a certain amount of license by paraphrasing, but you get the point). However I do agree with you that for the most part a large majority of them don't actually care at all about the league - this to me though is an awful lot sadder than any eL supporter, trying to prove him or herself - well actually prove/advocate live football every week which is really what 'us' eL'ers do in these instances.
I have to say, that I would be of the complete opposite to you on the Derry thing. I say shout it from the mountaintops. What Derry did last week was fücking brilliant and it deserves all the air anyone can give it. To a man, anyone I spoke to about this achievement was genuinely impressed. The further Derry and Drogheda can go in this competition the better it will be because it gives valuable back page inches to OUR LEAGUE in newspapers dominated by corporate multinational football - and I'll nail my colours to the mast here - football that I do not trust.
In any case - finally - back to the point about the 'barstoolers' that don't care. In my experience, there is a sizeable proportion of what you might call 'non eircom Leaguers' that are just not motivated to go. These guys when you ask them 'Who do you look out for in Ireland?' will give you the name of a club, be it Bohs, Rovers, Pats, Longford, Derry etc. These are lads that can be persuaded to come to a game or two a season. Lapsed fans or fans that come to one or two games a year just to keep their conscience balanced.
There is a huge market out there that has not been tapped up by anybody but the perception of the league has to be fixed and that will take a lot of marketing euros that the clubs just haven't had to spend. Maybe the FAI might put that right and I have the perfect campaign for them.
In anyway, while I don't tend to disagree strongly with much of what you actually say, I do think that you are being harsh on the eL supporters in general and I think you could do with looking a little bit deeper into the psychology of an eL supporter who goes out of his way to 'prove' the league to others and the reasons why he feels the need to do so.
Btw, I don't count debating it on this MB to be out of bounds as such.
I got no lips I got no bones where there
were eyes there's only space
We have a common enemy!
Im intrigued by your ideas and would like to subscribe to your newsletterFirstly, that's a great synopsis of everything that's WRONG with EL fans. Barstoolers this, barstoolers that.......fascinated with them
But spot on, why do so many care about people who DONT go to live games, nothing on this earth will change that barring one €300 day trip to the UK once every few years. leave them to watch football on tv. I get abuse in work for going to the EL but i really couldnt give a **** what these people say.
I have brought goals in for some to see ie O Connors vs Bray, Deerys vs everyone but thats just cos they wont see them anywhere else and they are cracking goals in any league.
kdjac
Fair analysis. Unfortunately, Irish fans of EPL, or fans of tellyball, or Irish sports media, or just Irish people generally, are simply too ignorant to care about the game played in actuality in front of their eyes. It is not part of their universe.Firstly, that's a great synopsis of everything that's WRONG with EL fans. Barstoolers this, barstoolers that.......fascinated with them
So you're right: there's no point in poking them with a stick. Better to grit yer teeth and let the FAI or whoever go on a charm offensive.
Think the Spillane ignorance is more a case of a GAA supremacist in full cry, with no one to check him. Spillane for me is the ultimate expression of the type of thick who thinks just being Irish or 'Gaelic' makes one a better human being.
People care about people who don't go to games as every fan in the Eircom League wants to see attendences rise. By getting them to rise you have to entice people that don't go to games to go, i.e. the barstoolers. The only way I feel this can happen is if Eircom League clubs can maintain thier success in Europe, build on it and to qualify for the 1st round proper of the CL and UEFA Cup on a regular basis. This means clubs will hold on to their better players and attract better players to play in the league. All these mean better football will be played and more people will come out to the games.
Primarily i support Irish teams for the co-effecient but the bettering of the reputation of the league etc come into it too.
while i want all to do well there are some teams easier to support than others.
Regardless of the co-efficient i would support Derry in Europe- they're a great club with fantastic supporters and a lovely style of football who we have a great relationship with. On the field i want us to hammer them, i want Waterford to hammer them etc but in Europe they have my full support.
Drogheda im not too pushed about, not a huge fan of their style of football etc but support them for the coefficient
Shels is the hardest team to support and the coeffecient is the main reason i do.
Whilst I enjoy watching Eircom League football I do not have a particular club that I support, although I like to see Bohs and Drogs doing well. I therefore don't have the sense of rivalry that those who support teams have so am happy to see any of your clubs doing well. However I can empathise with those that do not feel like that as I know that up here when the Glens play in Europe I am hoping they get a hammering every time. Other IL teams I am happy to see winning but I simply cannot bring myself to want them to win.
I'm happy for any EL team to progress in Europe to a point (not to the grup stages - too much money) except Shels or Rovers. I'd never cheer them on.
TO TELL THE TRUTH IS REVOLUTIONARY
The ONLY foot.ie user with a type of logic named after them!
All of this has happened before. All of it will happen again.
Of course it is. As is Arsenal. They're both limited companies, with shareholders, they're just not listed on stock exchange/ are privately limited. I mean if not being listed is the definition of a non corporate football club, then niether is the Glazer owed United. They may or may not pay a dividend, but ultimately shareholders take a profit, even if it's just when they sell the shares (a la Moores). FFS, even members clubs are corporations, just a different form.
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
Firstly, that's a great synopsis of everything that's WRONG with EL fans. Barstoolers this, barstoolers that.......fascinated with them
Secondly, it's possible to be a passionate fan of clubs in two different leagues, ie. being an EL fan and an EPL/SPL/SeriaA/La Liga. A lot of fans on here like that, including myself with Limerick FC/Liverpool.
Thirdly, Liverpool FC is not a corporation. I'm pretty sure Arsenal the same.
Finally, I would support any Irish team in Europe as I want Irish football to earn respect and for the EL to earn the respect of football fans in this country. Unfortunately for Limerick FC most of our historical rivals are up in the EL premier and we haven't clashed with them regularly for a long while now, so no problems supporting them in Europe. Hopefully the shoe will be on the other foot some day
good stuff 4tothefloor, thats the best message I've ever read on foot.ie.
(except I there is one Irish club that I could NEVER support in Europe of course...)
You wouldn't be the complete opposite to me 'cos I agree with you. What I'm saying is shout all you like from the mountaintops about Derry, but just don't do it while giving the fingers to barstoolers. Forget about the barstoolers/naysayers....
He was at it again Sunday night, not once but about 3 times. They were on about in-your-face aggressiveness shown by players to each other. He made a reference to it creeping into pukeball from 'other sports' and then John O'Mahoney put him out of his misery by saying 'soccer'. At the end of the show they showed a clip of the Dublin manager facing alot of media outside the dressing rooms and Pat quips "Unlike Jose or Rafa he's not getting paid a penny for it". I mean what a bo||ox
Why thank you ciaraa
I don't agree. Liverpool's main focus is not posting a profit, but re-investing in the team and running the football club. They are not aggressively seeking profits like say Man Utd/Real Madrid have over the last years. They haven't posted a profit in a long time and what shareholders are there are not in it for profit! David Moores certainly isn't, and when he eventually sells up he will be leaving with a loss but a lot of great memories. Liverpool wouldn't be looking for investors or a takeover if they were a profit making machine. And they are only investing what they can afford thus the unspectacular summer signings. Unlike other clubs who are paying stupid money for over-rated players. Liverpool is a traditionally run football club and a breath of fresh air amidst the Man Utd's/Chelsea's/Real Madrid's and I for one am proud to support them. But back on topic.......
But why do you support Liverpool.....?
You really thought a poor Pats side would trouble Derry's 100% record at home?? Mad!!
I support all the league's sides in European comps only, bar Bohs. The reason the league's fans support them is for the sake of the league's credibility. Nobody wants to see a return to the days when our clubs lose to teams from Moldova, and the likes of Finn Harps lose 0-12 away in Europe. The more results our clubs get in Europe, benefits the league in terms of it's image, profile, and allows other clubs in later seasons to get more favourable draws in the competitions. Hoping teams struggle in Europe because they play you next, is incredibly stupid and selfish, and likely to backfire when you come up against them in the league.
That just makes them an unprofitable corporation. Not not a corporation.
Well i for one have no problem in admitting that i couldnt care less how other EL sides perform in european competitions, wheras i dont wish ill luck on them, i just dont care!! oh with the honourable exception of Bohs & possibly Shels who i'd happily see get massacred out of sight every time!
I'm a Rovers supporter, end of, theres no way i could support a league rival, its just something i cant fathom at all!
Koh
Thomas Davis have said they will be the last man standing, they were WRONG!!
SRFC will NEVER die!!
Oh no, it was much, much, longer than that.
Interesting thread. I have to say in general I do support Irish teams in Europe, as was mentioned earlier it's mainly a credibility thing. I was delighted for Derry last week for example, and I hope they get another few next week in the 2nd leg. I also hope the Drogs progess, though I would fear for them not having an away goal. Of course for every rule there is an exception, and for me that is Shelbourne FC. Maybe it's small minded, but I don't care. I never want them to win any match, ever.
So it's only Galway and Dundalk you wouldn't support in Europe?
Regardless of whether you normally support other EL clubs in Europe, I'd say the vast majority of EL fans were cheering for City last Thursday.
After all the crap we had to listen to about how EL sides are no better than this or no better than that, last Thursday's game showed the world exacly where the EL sits in the footballing food chain. Our top clubs would hold their own in the SPL, and I suspect the vast majority of EL fans were delighted to see that point put so conclusively !
Im about as bitter a harps fan as ull get, i wanted Kev McHugh charged with high treason and shot at dawn
But in europe i want City to do damn well, i was as happy as anyone when they beat Gothenberg and thrashed Gretna.
in europe its Eircom League United as far as im concerned
Finn Harps Belfast Supporters
That's the sort of attitude that makes me not want to see clubs doing well.
54,321 sold - wws will never die - ***
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