QuoteDedecuted 3 points for playing him, even though they didn't know he was suspended? WTF!?!?!
I'd imagine that Shiels was without a club when he received his suspension, hence the letter being sent to his house. Obviously open to correction if anyone knows the proper story.Originally Posted by Galway Harps
Dedecuted 3 points for playing him, even though they didn't know he was suspended? WTF!?!?!
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Who Cares?!
If it had happened to Ollie I suppose it'd be heading to the European Court.
Actually, removing DC's first series games makes more sense than you'd think. You'd be cancelling everyone's second and third round games - i.e. one home and one away - so everyone loses equal games from their original fixture list and ends up with 16 home/15 away or vice versa. By removing all their games, some teams end up with 16 home games and 14 away games, and vice versa.
That's the biggest load of ****** I've ever heard, and God knows you hear some in this league. If they can prove they didn't know (e.g. postmark on the letter, etc), then they can't be punished. End of story. (Unless Ollie pushes really hard of course...)
Just wondering if we can have one season where there is no point deductions of any sort.
Every season someone loses points it just makes the league look like a joke. LOI clubs sort it out or the attandances will continue to suffer.
i think the decision to remove all results involving dcfc was correct as its the least complicated. even though some clubs might feel harddone its the fairest way and it dosnt effect the table in the slightest as no team gains or loses at the end of the day.
as regards the shamrock rovers point deductions, it is the responsibility of the clubs to check these things when they sign or field a player. thats the way it is in every league. it just seens too convenient for rovers that it got lost in the post.
as regards the shamrock rovers point deductions, it is the responsibility of the clubs to check these things when they sign or field a player. thats the way it is in every league. it just seens too convenient for rovers that it got lost in the post.
we never said it got lost in the post, we assume it got sent to a defunct CHF who obviously didnt notify shields. it was an additional one game ban so the player and club assumed that the original ban had been seen out as no-one had been contacted in relation to the extra ban. the onus is on the league to notify players of suspensions and they officially havent yet. when rovers recieve notification that he is suspended, he wont play.
The craic with Derry is that the FAI failed to notify Derry with a suspension for Sean Hargan therefore he was allowed to play on, without notification then the fAI have no rite to deduct point from Derry, if they do their decision will be overturned when we take it to court!
League table may need to be explained
Emmet Malone
15/08/2006
On Soccer: In most countries the people who put together league tables for the newspapers need only letters and numbers to complete their weekly chore. As often as not here in Ireland, it seems, the asterisk is central to the process.
As it happens they have been rather neglected so far this season but that may all be about to end for after what should be a hectic day of meetings in Merrion Square tomorrow tables published for the Premier Division of the Eircom League may well be littered with the things.
The desire of Shelbourne to see the points earned against the now-defunct Dublin City restored is the main reason.
It has the potential to result in a table that requires quite a lengthy explanatory footnote while Derry City's apparent error in playing Seán Hargan while he was supposed to be suspended recently may also require a line or two.
We should, of course, be getting used to this sort of thing and as usual the league has to take some responsibility for the mess it finds itself in.
Pointedly, it pretty much beggars belief that nobody anticipated a club would hit the rocks so violently that it would be in no position to comply with the organisation's rather quaint rule 6.4, which states clubs must give two months' notice of intention to resign and may do so only when the season has ended.
The words reflect noble intentions, to be sure, but hardly the reality of a league where at least a couple of clubs flirt with financial ruin each year and even the main administrator at the biggest and most successful outfit is far from a stranger to throwing the kettle on the hob when the Professional Footballers Association of Ireland drops around to sort out the issue of unpaid wages.
Still, those in charge of the league sought to retrospectively sort out the mess left by the untimely demise of Dublin City as best they could. Precedents are few but what few exist all appear to suggest that the club's results should be written out of the record books. And that's what was recommended to a meeting of the league's Board of Control last month.
It was subsequently argued that the board was the wrong committee to deal with the matter and that members associated with clubs standing to benefit from such a decision should have abstained on the matter. It is worth noting, however, that everybody present chose to follow the advice put before them and that those who favoured the action adopted included neutrals and an official of one club (Cork City) that actually lost ground in the title race as a result of the decision.
In any case, the suggestion by an appeals committee that the club's resignation should have been refused seems just a little unrealistic, while a compelling case has yet to be made for allowing a situation whereby the championship is decided in part on the basis of results achieved against a team no longer in existence.
Derry City effectively stand to benefit by three points in respect of their pursuit of Shelbourne if the current position is upheld at tomorrow's Management Committee - which, coincidentally, is the number of points they are most likely to be docked for their actions in the highly contentious Hargan affair.
The problem here centres on whether the club received notification of Hargan's suspension for accumulated bookings ahead of the Bohemians game and whether they subsequently played him against Waterford United after having been made aware, even informally, that he was the subject of a suspension.
Judging by the rules, as amended a couple of years ago, the league looks to be on fairly solid ground here. Notification must be sent either by fax or email, and the latter was apparently used in this instance because the club's fax machine was out of action.
The league can demonstrate that the message was sent and while the club insists it was not received, actually proving it appears to be their only hope of avoiding a penalty, and it is questionable whether that is possible.
City are already threatening legal action over the matter, and the frustration of Derry City manager Stephen Kenny and his players is entirely understandable.
The suspicion is, however, that whatever happens in relation to Dublin City, when the league table is next run on Saturday morning, Derry's name will indeed give the newspapers a reason to roll out the asterisk.
My understanding of the law on this is that if the League have proof of the sent e-mail, it has the same status as a registered letter. The only way Derry could prove they didn't receive it is if theri ISP records prove conclusively that it never came in - which I'd say is unlikely. Accidentally deleted or never opened probably won'r do them any good.
Mick D. for Ireland!
Malone makes a good point about CHF - why should anything in the final league standings be dependent on a team that isn't a part of the league? The final standings of a league table should depend (asterisks aside) on how each team performed agains the other teams in the table - the whole point of a league is to take a certain number of teams and organise them into a ranked, systematical order. CHF are not part of the league, so IMO let everything associated with them be expunged.
Foot.ie's entire existence is predicated on the average idiot's inability to ignore other idiots
If you can't resign from the league should Dublin City then not still be in the table? If they can't fulfil their remaining fixtures all clubs yet to play them should be given a walkover. That's how I see it anyway.
I think that'll be right - if the League can prove the e-mail was sent, then we're fecked.
For the geeks out there..........
How do you think the League would prove it was sent? Would they require logs from their mail server?
A copy of the original e-mail would not necessarily prove that it was actually sent successfully?
Where is the burden of proof? Is it up to the league to prove it was sent, or Derry to prove it was never received?
Last edited by dcfc_1928; 15/08/2006 at 1:45 PM. Reason: typo
Anyone can send an email with any date on it, ffs !
Just alter the time and date on your computer's clock and off you go !
Ridiculous....
What's the craic with the broken fax machine story? The Fai would have had to have phoned someone at the club to be informed that the fax machine was not working, out of paper etc. I'm sure in those communications someone would have mentioned the suspension. I reckon people were too busy watching the world cup to send out the notifications, nor was there any press releases at the time relating to the suspension, or even in the build up/previews to the match.
If this story is true this will be easily fixed,as there are plenty of faxes sent to plenty of other people from that very fax machine, therefore through fone records it should be able to show it was working!
I think that to prove that a fax was sent the league/FAI will have to produce a fax confirmation sheet.
In the case of an e-mail, it is possible to flag them to ensure that it has been received. A copy of this may also be needed.
Under the Electronics Communication Act it is necessary to prove that the electronic communication actually entered the machine of the intended recipitent, not just that it was sent.
Records on the FAI Mail Server would prove that the email was sent. There is no reason for them to make this information up as could do the same thing with a fax. How could they FAI prove that Derry had received a fax anyway.
A simple policy of sending a weekly fax/email on a specific day would solve all this. The clubs can check their faxes/emails say every wednesday & notify the FAI if not received.
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