Linfield launch anti-sectarian "True Blue" campaign

[dcfcsteve]

They were issued on a priority basis, first to members, then season ticket holders and then Travel Card holders.

So all to people known to and 'involved' with the club, who would be very regular fans. Yes ?

Yet you say these same type of people could never be guilty of anything like sectarian behaviour. ??

[Krstic]

David, I'd offer you help in digging that hole but you seem to be doing ok on your own!!!

[David]

So all to people known to and 'involved' with the club, who would be very regular fans. Yes ?

Yet you say these same type of people could never be guilty of anything like sectarian behaviour. ??

Not necessarily, no. Anyone can get a Travel Card, whether they are regular fans or not.

[Krstic]

Not necessarily, no. Anyone can get a Travel Card, whether they are regular fans or not.

So what's the point of the travel card then, if not to keep tabs on who is travelling?

[dcfcsteve]

Not necessarily, no. Anyone can get a Travel Card, whether they are regular fans or not.

That's not the question I asked though.

Surely to get a Travel Card you must either be, or make yourself, known to the club ? Name, address, perhaps even a photo - no ?? In which case, they're more than just Billy average popping in randomly for the St Stephen's Day derby, aren't they ! They're much more deeply involved with the club.

Anyways - I can't believe you're being so ridiculous as to give a guarantee that none of the members etc of Linfield could be found guilty of any sectarian behaviour ever. As if you know each and everyone of them intimately in all situations/circumstances. Sure - it's only the blow-ins who case problems at Linfield games - even games wit relatively small crowds (and therefore few blow-ins) like the Setanta Cup.

Anyone know the words to 'Dream on Dreamer' by the Brand New Heavies.....?

[Schwalker]

Schwalker - I don't know who told you this, but I suspect they may well have had both arms tugging firmly on your lower limbs...

Man United was NOT set-up by Irish factory workers. It began life as the works team of a Lancashire and Yorkshire railways depot (hence the original name of Newton Heath). The Irish were involved in the railways in England - but in the donkey work like building the feckin things, not the engineering works.

Man City was NOT set-up by sailors from Belfast either (I can barely contain my mirth at the comedy nature of the suggestion...) City began began life as a church team (St Marks), set-up by Church wardens to give local kids in South-East Manchester something to do. They changed their name when they wanted to attract players from outside their congregation. The club did take on a minor freemason's link some years later when they went bust, but that had nothing to do with Ireland and everything to do with the religious/bizarre preferences of the main guy who saved therm financially.

As for 'links' between certain clubs - mostly a mixture of individual preferences, nonesense, or historical links through players/managers/games/mutual respect etc. But trying to suggest that Manchester had even a small percentage of the sectarian history or strife that either Liverpool or Glasgow did (and still do) is ridiculous

Not everything someone from a place tells you is automatically true. I suggest strongly you carry a large container of salt with you to ingest whenever people tell you fables like this again...

I actually mailed one of my Manc mates. He said that I should replace "founded by" with "supported by" and it would be correct..

The Man United to be was heavily supported by Irish factory workers while The Man City to be had a lot of Belfast sailors as fans during their Ardwick FC period...I might mention that the Manchester ship canal meant that Manchester was a major port and that the Belfast shipyards was depending heavily on deliveries from Manchester.

Might this be correct..

[David]

That's not the question I asked though.

Surely to get a Travel Card you must either be, or make yourself, known to the club ? Name, address, perhaps even a photo - no ?? In which case, they're more than just Billy average popping in randomly for the St Stephen's Day derby, aren't they ! They're much more deeply involved with the club.

Anyways - I can't believe you're being so ridiculous as to give a guarantee that none of the members etc of Linfield could be found guilty of any sectarian behaviour ever. As if you know each and everyone of them intimately in all situations/circumstances. Sure - it's only the blow-ins who case problems at Linfield games - even games wit relatively small crowds (and therefore few blow-ins) like the Setanta Cup.

Anyone know the words to 'Dream on Dreamer' by the Brand New Heavies.....?

You did state that to have a Travel Card you have to be a regular and that is not the case. Indeed there have been overseas applications for them so that if people are in Northern Ireland when a restricted game is being played then they can possibly get a ticket. They are not, as you stated, members of the club despite the club obviously having their details.

You do seem to know a lot about Linfield, a lot more than me you seem to think. I repeat that I would be certain that there would be no sectarianism at our games from any members of the club. No club anywhere in Ireland has done more to eradicate this problem, indeed I was at yet another meeting tonight on this very subject. Our club, right throughout all the teams, from the first team to the youth teams to womens teams are mixed with all welcome. Our first team is probably the most mixed team anywhere on the island. Yes we still have a problem but it is now a very small number of people involved and none of those are members and I am confident that they will be dealt with. Oh and to use your analogy, there was never a racist problem at Windsor as there was only a very few involved in racist abuse, pretty similar numbers to those involved in sectarian abuse in the home end at the Brandywell for Linfield's visit in the Setanta. We can forget all about the racism aspect as it is not a problem, only a few morons shouting.

[dcfcsteve]

Oh and to use your analogy, there was never a racist problem at Windsor as there was only a very few involved in racist abuse, pretty similar numbers to those involved in sectarian abuse in the home end at the Brandywell for Linfield's visit in the Setanta. We can forget all about the racism aspect as it is not a problem, only a few morons shouting.

I'll happily admit that rascism hasn't been anywhere as big a problem at Windsor as sectarianism.

Would I not be right in stating, however, that rascist booing etc of Shels player Ndo could be heard on the Setanta coverage (if my memory serves me right) ? Converesely, nothing at all sectarian was audible on the TV coverage from the Brandywell, which knackers your comparison re numbers involved as well.

Keep plugging away David - you'll get us pesky evil Derry kids on something eventually....

[Lux Interior]

I'll happily admit that rascism hasn't been anywhere as big a problem at Windsor as sectarianism.

Would I not be right in stating, however, that rascist booing etc of Shels player Ndo could be heard on the Setanta coverage (if my memory serves me right) ? Converesely, nothing at all sectarian was audible on the TV coverage from the Brandywell, which knackers your comparison re numbers involved as well.

Keep plugging away David - you'll get us pesky evil Derry kids on something eventually....

Steve, plenty of sectarian, vile chanting when Derry came to the Oval.

Or was it Belfast Redmen?

Your fans recently have adapted this TGFITW mentality when - as other clubs seem to acknowledge - there is an unsavoury element attach themselves (to the respective clubs) for the bigger games.

Agreed?

[David]

I'll happily admit that rascism hasn't been anywhere as big a problem at Windsor as sectarianism.

Would I not be right in stating, however, that rascist booing etc of Shels player Ndo could be heard on the Setanta coverage (if my memory serves me right) ? Converesely, nothing at all sectarian was audible on the TV coverage from the Brandywell, which knackers your comparison re numbers involved as well.

Keep plugging away David - you'll get us pesky evil Derry kids on something eventually....

So it is only a problem if it is heard on television? Strange attitude to take or is that an attitude of brushing thingsunder the carpet. I will be totally honest I was at the Shelbourne game at Windsor and was not even aware of the racist chanting as I could not hear it from where I was sitting such was the numbers involved. It was only when a friend told me about it after the match that I was aware it had even happened.

[Krstic]

So it is only a problem if it is heard on television? Strange attitude to take or is that an attitude of brushing thingsunder the carpet. I will be totally honest I was at the Shelbourne game at Windsor and was not even aware of the racist chanting as I could not hear it from where I was sitting such was the numbers involved. It was only when a friend told me about it after the match that I was aware it had even happened.

Well sure that's everything hunky Dory then!!!

[David]

Well sure that's everything hunky Dory then!!!

Not at all but certainly seems to be the attitude being adopted by Derry fans.

[dcfcsteve]

So it is only a problem if it is heard on television? Strange attitude to take or is that an attitude of brushing thingsunder the carpet. I will be totally honest I was at the Shelbourne game at Windsor and was not even aware of the racist chanting as I could not hear it from where I was sitting such was the numbers involved. It was only when a friend told me about it after the match that I was aware it had even happened.

It's painful that I have to spell everything out for you David.

You said the same numbers were involved in rascist chanting at Linfield as were involved in trading sectarian insults at the Brandywell. I questioned this on the basis that the Linfield rascists could be clearly heard on national TV, whilst the Brandywell insults could not - which suggests a clear disparity in organisation and/or numbers.

Keep up.....

[dcfcsteve]

Steve, plenty of sectarian, vile chanting when Derry came to the Oval.

Or was it Belfast Redmen?

Your fans recently have adapted this TGFITW mentality when - as other clubs seem to acknowledge - there is an unsavoury element attach themselves (to the respective clubs) for the bigger games.

Agreed?

You know it's been well documented that the incident you're referring to primarily involved a group of Cliftonville fan who got into our end.

Or are you suggesting that a section of Derry fans donned Cliftonville regalia, put on Belfast accents, and then fought with other Derry fans who had told them to shut up......?

And what the feck is TGFITW ? HAWKA (hardly a well known acronym).....

[David]

It's painful that I have to spell everything out for you David.

You said the same numbers were involved in rascist chanting at Linfield as were involved in trading sectarian insults at the Brandywell. I questioned this on the basis that the Linfield rascists could be clearly heard on national TV, whilst the Brandywell insults could not - which suggests a clear disparity in organisation and/or numbers.

Keep up.....

It suggests no such thing so maybe you should try to keep up. Surely that would be down to the positioning and utilisation of the microphones as well as the acoustics of the stand.

[dcfcsteve]

It suggests no such thing so maybe you should try to keep up. Surely that would be down to the positioning and utilisation of the microphones as well as the acoustics of the stand.

Course it was David. It was just by fluke that those involved in the Windsor shenanigans were huddled round a microphone, whilst those at the Brandywell deliberately positoned thmeselves as far away from one as they could.

So are you now claiming that there was sectarian chanting at the Brndywell, rather than the trading of insults that you've said previously ? Otherwise, acoustics are going to be fairly irrelevant - as individual voices are highly unlikely to be heard in amongst a large and vociferous crowd.

I wouldn't go on on holiday to Egypt if I was you David. You'd only end up in denial........

[David]

Course it was David. It was just by fluke that those involved in the Windsor shenanigans were huddled round a microphone, whilst those at the Brandywell deliberately positoned thmeselves as far away from one as they could.

So are you now claiming that there was sectarian chanting at the Brndywell, rather than the trading of insults that you've said previously ? Otherwise, acoustics are going to be fairly irrelevant - as individual voices are highly unlikely to be heard in amongst a large and vociferous crowd.

I wouldn't go on on holiday to Egypt if I was you David. You'd only end up in denial........

You can twist and spin all you want but the fact of the matter is that similar numbers were involved in sectarian abuse in the home end of the Brandywell as were involved in racist abuse at Windsor. Is shouting abuse worse than singing? Are there different levels of sectarianism. Why can you not just accept that there was a problem at the Brandywell?

[dcfcsteve]

You can twist and spin all you want but the fact of the matter is that similar numbers were involved in sectarian abuse in the home end of the Brandywell as were involved in racist abuse at Windsor. Is shouting abuse worse than singing? Are there different levels of sectarianism. Why can you not just accept that there was a problem at the Brandywell?

I don't doubt your word that these things happened at the Brandywell.

But yet again you're trying to claim that Linfield are no worse than anyone else - when the facts simpy don't support this.

How the hell do you know what sort of numbers were involved in either incident !?! You've already stated that you didn't hear the rascism at Windsor, so you've clearly no idea of what part of the ground it came from, let alone the numbers involved. You're just talking out of your arse here - trying to protect Linfield by saying 'Derry are no better'.

It is obvious to anyone with common sense and a degree of objectivity that if you can hear a crowd saying something clearly on TV then it is likely to be involve more people and/or be better organised/coordinated than a crowd saying something that can't be heard on TV. You can throw in red herrings like the location of mikes etc, but that simpe truth still holds. If there weren't more people involved in the Windsor rascism - though by your own admittance, you haven't got a fcukin clue how many were involved- then at the very least they were more coordinated/organised.

You consistently try to defend your club's supporters by claiming that others are just as bad - hence why you continually have a go at Derry City fans, even in threads that have nothign to do with City. I'm not claiming for one minute that there haven't been unacceptable instances involving City fans, but stop the pretence that Linfield have no bigger a problem than anyone else. Your fans are light years ahead - hence why you've had to introduce high-profile campaigns to address the problem.

[David]

I don't doubt your word that these things happened at the Brandywell.

But yet again you're trying to claim that Linfield are no worse than anyone else - when the facts simpy don't support this.

How the hell do you know what sort of numbers were involved in either incident !?! You've already stated that you didn't hear the rascism at Windsor, so you've clearly no idea of what part of the ground it came from, let alone the numbers involved. You're just talking out of your arse here - trying to protect Linfield by saying 'Derry are no better'.

It is obvious to anyone with common sense and a degree of objectivity that if you can hear a crowd saying something clearly on TV then it is likely to be involve more people and/or be better organised/coordinated than a crowd saying something that can't be heard on TV. You can throw in red herrings like the location of mikes etc, but that simpe truth still holds. If there weren't more people involved in the Windsor rascism - though by your own admittance, you haven't got a fcukin clue how many were involved- then at the very least they were more coordinated/organised.

You consistently try to defend your club's supporters by claiming that others are just as bad - hence why you continually have a go at Derry City fans, even in threads that have nothign to do with City. I'm not claiming for one minute that there haven't been unacceptable instances involving City fans, but stop the pretence that Linfield have no bigger a problem than anyone else. Your fans are light years ahead - hence why you've had to introduce high-profile campaigns to address the problem.

Where have I said that Derry's problem equates to that of Linfield? You really do seem to have a problem reading. Your claim was that due to only a few being involved then you do not have a problem with sectarianism. Surely then it is fair for me to say that as it was similarly low numbers involved in racism at Windsor then we do not, nor did we ever, have a racism problem. You are correct in saying that I did not witness the numbers involved at Windsor (although I did at the Brandywell) but I have spoken to enough reliable people to know that I have my facts right on this.

[Mr_Parker]

You know it's been well documented that the incident you're referring to primarily involved a group of Cliftonville fan who got into our end.

Or are you suggesting that a section of Derry fans donned Cliftonville regalia, put on Belfast accents, and then fought with other Derry fans who had told them to shut up......?

It has not been well documented! It was rumour hearsay and bull that allowed that story to perpetuate.

I spoke only last week with a Derry City supporter who was at that game and regularly follows Derry. He also happens to be a regular supporter of Cliftonville. I asked him about this very incident and he replied to me that it was a load of "balls". He told me that the only person in Cliftonville colours that night was himself in a Cliftonville top. He also told me that the people involved in the chants/songs were 'well known' to him and were from Derry, but not regulars at Derry games and had no connection with Cliftonville whatsoever. He himself was one of the Derry supporters who was chastising them for their behaviour.