I think gibson and mccarthy would give us a solid platform allowing us to keep the ball better. When u look at the russia game away and how our centre mids absolutely failed to pass the ball and keep possesion it is hard to not feel that continuing with that pairing will bring similiiar problems in the summer.Its all very well to see andrews and whelan making last ditch tackles and blocks but if u have better players who can keep the ball and be more mobile than certainly whelan then why not play them? That is in no way to disrespect whelan and andrews or to ignore their huge efforts for us.
That's all well and good to say Ireland should hold onto possession but the reality is that Xavi, Iniesta and Modric are far superior players to Gibson and McCarthy in that respect and the chances of them out-playing those world class players is unlikely. Andrews and Whelan would offer a better degree of security, I think.Originally Posted by liamoo11
Fair enough. I think though gibson, mccarthy play that defensive role at their clubs and have the discipline to bring the security to the side as well as their passing ability. It would be different if we were putting forward holahan and reid to play centre mid.
Individually, Gibson and McCarthy are defensively as good as if not better than Andrews or Whelan (this is my overall opinion backed up by tackling/interception figures - obviously subjective). They both usually play as DM/anchormen for their clubs with the added bonus that they both keep possession better than Andrews/Whelan. The only real advantage that Whelan and Andrews have is international experience and familiarity with the other players (maybe 'mentality' too). In Trap's world only Gibson has a chance of breaking up the partnership and this is pretty slim since Gibson's injuries mean he hasn't played for us since the Croatia game.
Ya think. You cannot be serious? Whelan, Andrews and security in the same sentence just don't go.
I have to admit that I have been Whelan's biggest critic, largely because of his lack of mobility. But credit where it's due, he has looked quite adept with the ball in
recent weeks. Still the combination of him and Andrews is miles below international standard. One of the two of them has to be left out. It should be either Whelan-Gibson or Gibson-McCarthy. I can't see Andrews really fitting in anywhere.
Interesting debate this, each player has his backers and knockers and good arguments for and against (looking at other threads too). I think you can't under rate experience so one of Andrews or Whelan should be starting with one of Gibson or McCarthy.
At the moment neither of Gibson and McCarthy are miles ahead of the more experienced two so I probably wouldn't be up for starting them together. Maybe it is a partnership to consider for the future and if they do end up on the pitch together due to subs or injury we will see how well they play together. They say the best CMF partners should compliment eachother but I really can't make my mind up on this one as it seem Trap always wants both to play the same role. None of the 4 is so much better than the others that he should be a sure starter. If the 4 are going to Poland all combinations of each pairing should be given at least half a game together, if there is time for that before the EC. Lets see if Gibson and McCarthy reall have improved over the last half season.
Last edited by Irish_Praha; 25/03/2012 at 9:20 PM.
Here we are at the door of a major football competition and were talking about how they (cm pairings) might compliment each other. The point is we should know the answer already but stubborn old Trap
has never used friendly games for what they are there for i.e. to try new players / partnerships / formations.
But like the Murphy’s I’m not bitter he has after all got us there.
Trap tried a new formation in the last friendly. He dropped keane back a bit towards ctre mid. No point in trying these things unless you do so with the players who will start in Poland.
Trap has played many ctre mid partnerships over the last two years with a mix of andrews, whelan, gibson, green, foley and fahey.
he has also introduced many new players into the squad / team over the last few years.
If Trap did drop Robbie towards CM in the Czech game, I didn't notice it. At least I didn't notice Robbie have any effect on the game from CM or else it was all too subtle for me.
People seem to be forgetting that those aren't are guaranteed 4 CMs, Green has a good chance of going too.
People are really pairing Andrews and Whelan off as if they're one and the same thing. In my opinion Andrews is a far better player, he's more confident on the ball and more tenacious off it. Whelan's a good pro but offers very little. Andrews has done more than enough to merit his starting place. It baffles me to see people are saying that Gibson would do just as good a defensive job, he's slow moving and I've rarely seen him win a tackle (or even make one). Hopefully McCarthy will get his run in the next campaign.
I wasn't a big fan of Andrews at first, but he has really grown on me. I think he is the form player for both Ireland and West Brom at the moment, he works extremely hard in both defence and attack, even notching in a decent amount of goals this season (11, although 9 were for Ipswich in the Championship). He'd be my first choice CM for Ireland right now. I'm not a big fan of Whelan, but I think Andrews could be comfortably paired with any of McCarthy, Whelan or Gibson.
It's almost certainly going to be a pairing of Whelan and Andrews when the tournament rolls around, but I don't think any pairing of Whelan, Gibson, McCarthy or Andrews is going to be a match for Xavi / Fàbregas / Iniesta / any other Spanish international midfielder. I have a feeling the Spain game at least will be like the Russia -vs- Ireland game, backs to the wall stuff where everyone is playing as a defender.
All this shows is that you see what you want to see.
From PL games this season:
Gibson, 1.8 tackles + 1.7 interceptions per game.
Whelan, 2.1 tackles + 1.6 interceptions per game.
Andrews, 1.8 tackles + 1.2 interceptions per game.
McCarthy, 2.6 tackles + 1.8 interceptions per game.
Have you been watching Gibson play for Everton? He's even surprised the Everton fans who had no idea that he could play as a DM (with the added bonus of being able to keep possession and strike the odd beauty). From his 8 starts, Everton are not only unbeaten but have also only conceded 4 goals.
whoscored.com
Thought Gibson had a cracking game for Everton tonight in a deep-lying playmaker role retaining possession very well and making a lot of neat passes. When Sunderland were on the attack, he was quick to close down and get tackles in. McCarthy's place is looking to be in serious jepoardy by the looks of it. Andrews, Whelan and Fahey are the shoe-in's and Gibson on this kind of form can't really be ignored.
I don't think Gibson was ever going to be ignored, even if he'd stayed at Old Trafford. I agree he is in terrific form though - the injury doesn't seem to have halted his momentum at all, barring a few sloppy passes tonight. Was unlucky to get booked in the first half too and maintained his discipline for the rest of the game.
he was class tonight. Owned the sunderland midfield which is fairly average i have to admit. Anyone sayin he does not show aggression, urgency or win tackles really is not been fair. He has an excellent range of passing and everton will make a massive profit on him and to my mind it is as good a piece of transfer business as mcclean is for sunderland. If gibson cost half a million and utd pay 15 million rodwell then Moyes is a genius
I thought part of it was just that Sunderland were outmanned in midfield. Sessegnon and Bendtner rarely bother to drop back to help their midfield out, whereas Cahill and Jelavic work a lot harder.
If I just saw what I wanted to see, Gibson winning a countless amount of tackles and generally running the show. Why would you suggest otherwise?
As I was typing my post I just knew there would be a statistician lurking with intent. Most stats mean very little to me and, to be honest, if these stats prove anything it's that none of the above are making enough tackles or interceptions.
Well this is where I am going to have to come clean. I've seen very few of his games for Everton. I saw the game where they beat Chelsea 2-0 and he was ordinary enough but haven't seen much other than that. My assessment of him would have been more from his United/Ireland perfomances which may be a little bit unfair. All I know from the games I have seen is that Andrews makes life far more difficult for the opposition than Whelan and Gibson, and is much more inclined to look for possession. All the stats in the world won't convince me otherwise. That said, I hope Gibson is playing as well as you seem to think, and that he continues to improve. In fairness, I presume that goes for everybody, critics or otherwise.
Like I say, I'm not a big stats man but at least it shows he's not a liability anyway.
Last edited by DeLorean; 28/03/2012 at 10:05 AM.
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