Darron Gibson

**DannyInvincible** · 31/01/2007, 12:41 PM

What's the actual situation regarding the legitimacy of the call-up? The IFA and their supporters are harping on about how Gibson's call-up by the 'dark side/beggars' contravenes FIFA's association qualification rules. I would have thought that, being born in Northern Ireland, he has, by way of the Good Friday Agreement, a right to be a member of the Irish nation. The relevant provision recognises:

the birthright of all the people of Northern Ireland to identify themselves and be accepted as Irish or British, or both, as they may so choose, and accordingly confirm that their right to hold both British and Irish citizenship is accepted by both Governments and would not be affected by any future change in the status of Northern Ireland.

By the way, I don't see why his use of 'Derry' would have provided any real indication as to where his allegiance lay. Martin O'Neill, who attended the same school in the city as Gibson, would never have used, nor would he use, 'Londonderry' but had no problem with representing Northern Ireland.

**Only1Rovers** · 31/01/2007, 12:52 PM

Jay-sus the boys are getting carried away with this. It sounds like there worried it actually might happen. Not gonna happen in our life-time not even an all-Ireland league.

Forget about it.

**gspain** · 31/01/2007, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by pete

What division in Belgium do Antwerp play as I cannot see them...

Gibson did not impress in the B International. If Staunton is playing him just to stop him declaring elsewhere means easier to get capped as "convertee" than playing only qualified for one country...

Gibson is fully committed to us. He used to travel down to games as a kid.

Still a surprise choice.

**charliesboots** · 01/02/2007, 1:44 PM

Belfast Telegraph

Gibson can't play for Republic, says Wells

Wednesday, January 31, 2007

By Stuart McKinley

Irish FA chief executive Howard Wells remains adamant that Darron Gibson is not eligible to play for the Republic of Ireland, despite the player being named in Steve Staunton's senior squad for the first time.

The Londonderry-born teenager has been chosen for next week's Euro 2008 qualifier against San Marino, even though his status is still under review by both FIFA and UEFA.

Late last year Wells laid out the IFA's stance on northern born players representing the Republic and referred to FIFA's own ruling on player eligibility.

"We have presented the case to both FIFA and UEFA and are waiting for their decision," Wells told the Belfast Telegraph.

"We were asked to produce case studies and Darron Gibson is one of those case studies.

"There is a meeting scheduled for April when a decision will be made."

Wells recently won a battle with FIFA to allow Northern Ireland players to play under an Irish passport, but he sees this as a different issue.

"It is not about passports, it's about eligibility and we have asked FIFA and UEFA to apply their rules," he said.

"We have told the FAI about this and we will see what happens.

"The articles are clear and very precise and we have asked FIFA as the world governing body to take responsibility."

**pete** · 01/02/2007, 2:10 PM

The policy of giving players senior international caps just to prevent them declaring for other countries is all wrong. The FAI would be up in arms if was being done to them.

**eirebhoy** · 01/02/2007, 2:13 PM

"It is not about passports

Yes it is...

**NeilMcD** · 01/02/2007, 2:15 PM

Originally Posted by pete

The policy of giving players senior international caps just to prevent them declaring for other countries is all wrong. The FAI would be up in arms if was being done to them.

Has this happened yet.

**cavan_fan** · 01/02/2007, 2:31 PM

I am fairly confident he is elgibile but I hope someone in the FAI gets something in writing from UEFA before the game or else don't play him. Last thing we need is to lose points for fielding an ineligible player. Though of course the FAI are always right on top of that sort of thing.

**eirebhoy** · 01/02/2007, 2:40 PM

Can I ask how he couldn't be eligible? Once you have an Irish passport that's all that matters. If you won an Irish passport with a bottle of coke you're eligible to play for Ireland.

**Dodge** · 01/02/2007, 2:41 PM

He has an Irish passport and hasn�t represented NI at high enough level. He absolutely can play for Ireland.

He should not be in the squad though. No way in hell is the Belgian second division at a standard high enough. Any of the lads in the EL, Mick Doyle at Coventry, Patrick Clegg at Flakirk and numerous others should be well ahead of him.

**cavan_fan** · 01/02/2007, 3:32 PM

Originally Posted by eirebhoy

Can I ask how he couldn't be eligible? Once you have an Irish passport that's all that matters. If you won an Irish passport with a bottle of coke you're eligible to play for Ireland.

Our views are sort of irrelevant. I'd just like the FAI to get something in writing so we dont have to have endless arguments later on.

As I say I'm not arguing whether he is or is not elgible but he has to meet one of the following:

a) he was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
b ) his biological mother or biological father was born on the territory
of the relevant Association;
c) his grandmother or grandfather was born on the territory of the
relevant Association;
d) he has lived on the territory of the relevant Association for at least
two years without interruption.

The territory of the FAI is the Republic only.

At the very least there is a sliver of doubt here so wouldnt it be nice to get it agreed first.

**eirebhoy** · 01/02/2007, 3:56 PM

Ah right.

"A player who, under the terms of Art. 15 of the Regulations Governing
the Application of the FIFA Statutes, is eligible to represent more
than one Association on account of his nationality, may play in an
international match for one of these Associations only if, in addition to
having the relevant nationality, he fulfi ls at least one of the following
conditions:"

So basically every player has to meet one of those conditions regardless. I didn't realise that. I thought as long as you had a passport that was it.

**as_i_say** · 01/02/2007, 4:07 PM

has anyone ever actually heard a person from the north ever use "londonderry"? i mean seriously

**EalingGreen** · 01/02/2007, 4:23 PM

Originally Posted by eirebhoy

Ah right.

"A player who, under the terms of Art. 15 of the Regulations Governing
the Application of the FIFA Statutes, is eligible to represent more
than one Association on account of his nationality, may play in an
international match for one of these Associations only if, in addition to
having the relevant nationality, he fulfi ls at least one of the following
conditions:"

So basically every player has to meet one of those conditions regardless. I didn't realise that. I thought as long as you had a passport that was it.

FIFA tightened up on the eligibility criteria when certain countries (e.g. Qatar, Togo) began to abuse the process by naturalising and granting passports to talented footballers from countries (e.g. Brazil) with whom they had "no obvious connection". This came to a head in 2004, when opposing teams objected.
Consequently, FIFA introduced the parents/grandparents/residence requirements for those not born in the territory of the relevant Association.
It is uncertain whether Gibson qualifies for ROI or not - the FAI think "yes", the IFA "no".
As I see it, the argument boils down to the following.
Despite the fact that Gibson is unquestionably "Irish" in the normal sense of the word, when it comes tofootballing purposes, he looks (to me, at least), to be Northern Irish. Consequently, regardless of his affinities etc, seeing as he was not born within the FAI's jurisdiction (Republic), then he needs to demonstrate that he's OK on the parents/grandparents/residency criteria, which it appears he doesn't.
However, the "get-out clause" for the FAI may be as follows.
These additional criteria are only applied where someone, who qualifies by virtue of having dual "nationality", is switching nationality.
Gibson's argument is that he was never NI's in the first place, so the ROI is his first (only) Nationality.
The IFA presumably considers that, regardless of political considerations, he is for footballing purposes from NI, since he was born within the jurisdiction of the IFA. (Therefore he is attempting to "switch").
My own view is that whilst FIFA may be sympathetic to someone in his position, at the very least they failed to consider the implications for NI/ROI nationals when they tightened the Rules.
It is possible, I suppose, that they would therefore declare that Gibson's circumstances establish a "clear connection" with the ROI such that he is not actually switching from NI. (Btw, it looks to me as though the term "clear connection" was coined in addressing the situation in 2004, but not actually incorporated in the Rules anywhere)
However, I think it at least as possible that they will not do so, if for no other reason than that to allow an exception in this case will stir up all sorts of problems in other "disputed" territories, or allow Associations to invent spurious "connections" in order to nab a player.

Interesting.

**paul_oshea** · 01/02/2007, 4:24 PM

yes i have, a guy i emailed in work when i said "derry" he goes sorry where? as though he hadn't a clue what i was on about. he actually went so far as to ignore the whole line in which it was refered to, it was really bizarre actually. So I posted him the wikipedia thing about derry/londonderry

**EalingGreen** · 01/02/2007, 4:28 PM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

yes i have, a guy i emailed in work when i said "derry" he goes sorry where? as though he hadn't a clue what i was on about. he actually went so far as to ignore the whole line in which it was refered to, it was really bizarre actually. So I posted him the wikipedia thing about derry/londonderry

How silly. Indeed, he reminds me of those sad individuals who pretend that Northern Ireland doesn't exist, either, for example referring to the "Ireland" football team, when they mean "Republic of Ireland"

**pete** · 01/02/2007, 4:29 PM

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

Has this happened yet.

How else to explain Belgian 2nd division player getting call up?

**DannyInvincible** · 01/02/2007, 4:40 PM

Originally Posted by pete

The policy of giving players senior international caps just to prevent them declaring for other countries is all wrong. The FAI would be up in arms if was being done to them.

I can't see him declaring for Northern Ireland anyway, unless he is actually inelegible to play for the Republic, of course.

Originally Posted by cavan_fan

The territory of the FAI is the Republic only.

Are you sure of this?

Originally Posted by as_i_say

has anyone ever actually heard a person from the north ever use "londonderry"? i mean seriously

A lot of people use it quite seriously. Mainly to make a political statement.

**EalingGreen** · 01/02/2007, 4:41 PM

Originally Posted by pete

How else to explain Belgian 2nd division player getting call up?

Well if that is Staunton's motivation, then he's taking a risk by doing so before FIFA "clear" Gibson.

Btw, Royal Antwerp are MU's "feeder club" in Belgium. I wouldn't necessarily decry them just because they are 2nd Division, otherwise I hardly think MU would be using them.

Interestingly, Gibson is one of three contemporary young Irish players at MU who bear comparison. The first was Paul McShane, apparently highly thought of by Ferguson, but who felt his career would progress better at WBA, than MU Reserves or Antwerp.
The other is Jonny Evans (NI). He was sent to Antwerp at the same time as Gibson, but was recalled early, I think because it was felt he'd gone as far as they could take him. Consequently, Ferguson loaned him to Sunderland, where Keane has pitched him straight in.
Sanchez did the same for him for NI, but at Left Back (he's really a Centre Back), our problem position. In his three caps to date, we beat Spain and Latvia and drew away to Denmark. In all three, JE was outstanding, with both Spain and Denmark subbing the winger he was marking!
If Gibson's half the prospect, he'll do OK. For someone.