QuoteTrap's idea of the "I'll keep the door open" policy
It was a well circulated rumour at the time so presumably there's some degree of truth to it, particularly considering recent events. Walking out while the side is at a low ebb out of no reason other than personal frustration at not getting game time would have been a million times worse than what Roy Keane did, it'd surely have been the end of his international career under any manager, that action would have been crossing a point of no return without a doubt. You'd have to wonder what his teammates thought of him when it got to them that he was considering such a move, wouldn't surprise me if he wasn't the most popular person in the camp given what we hear about him.Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar
But the fact that he was even considering such an action either means he was content to end his Irish career or that he isn't too bright and just reacts without consideration of the consequences.
Last edited by Murfinator; 03/09/2012 at 9:51 PM.
Trap's idea of the "I'll keep the door open" policy
I'd be interested in knowing what happened with the conversation with Trap and I will reserve judging until/if I hear both sides of the story.
But one thing that has been on my mind since Trap's logic of not bringing him on against Italy is did he use that reasoning with Gibson?
During the conversation they had, did Trap say to Darron, "Oh, I couldn't bring you on because it might look like I was weakening the team to help Italy"? If he did say that to him, then, honestly, I think I would have said the same thing to Trap. Thanks but no thanks.
If Trap told him we didn't play you because you're not good enough, then why would anybody want to play for a manager like that? These guys are competitive.
Maybe he was so down heartened by not getting to play for his country that now he can't bear to face the teammates he nearly walked on?
Now, I don;t have much time for a lot of your comments because in my opinion they are intentional WUMMING or else you have a very blinkered view but this one takes the biscuit.
A million times worse? You're comparing a captain walking out on his side days before the competition starts to a guy you say is useless talking about walking out on the team after they have been knocked out with only one game remaining and he hadn't had a look in?
That's why I'm slow to criticize him. Guys like you jump on the bandwagon and do everything in your power to stir up as much hatred as possible. I called you on it in the Wilson thread and suprisingly you have given up that fight without replying.
I'll wait for Gibson's reply. If he deserves abuse or if he deserves to be told p*ss off then I will have no problem taking that stance. Likewise if he stood by his morals while being f*cked around by his manager for no proper reasons of promoting Green ahead of him and not giving him a run then I would defend him for doing such.
*Disclaimer All of this is just an alternative view. It's easy to do when on the opposite side of the world and not watching the media everyday. Chances are Gibson is just an egotistical w*nker who couldn't be bothered turning up.
What's your reasoning here? The one thing we should all know is that it is foolish to interpret Trap's stock phrases as anything other than the meaningless banalities they are.
Trap picked Foley again after he more or less came out and said he wouldn't play again under Trap. Gibson has kept his cards much closer to his chest and is much more likely to be actually required to play in a big game. Trap probably thinks he's a complete idiot, but he will call upon him again if he requires him, and it's likely he will require him.
Because he has used th exact phrase before in relation to several Irish players (even used it for Lee Carsely!). I agree with you that Gibson is still needed but he would not have started in this game on Friday and even if he does come back (not going to happen IMO)will not start against Germany. I see the backtracking on playing McClean has already started as I predicted yesterday. Trap and Tadelli make the exact same comments before every game. Build up a player a week before the game. And then don't start him. I expect to see Cox starting out wide left. And I wouldn't put my mortgage on McCarthy starting either despite what has been said previously. It could be Meyler or even Wilson starting alongside Whelan.
Tardelli was spouting the McClean "maybe not ready yet" line this morning. But he's played and delivered against better players than he's likely to face against Kazakhstan. It's a tricky tie but if he can't start this type of game he'll never be ready.
The Duff comments from Tardelli tell us a lot. Not exactly a ringing endorsement for McClean. It comes back to the system trumping individual players everytime no matter how good the players might be. They don't trust McClean or Long and I'm not sure they trust MccArthy either to stick to the system. And whatever happens in these get togethers seems to confirm Traps and Tardelli's beliefs that certain players can't be trusted to do the required job. Why else would they continue to pick players like Cox and Green ahead of clearly better players.
Good post, magicman. If you feel Gibson had a right to feel aggrieved (and I think he may well have if Trap actually offered him the same excuse he gave the media the other day), what do you make of his reaction to such disappointment? Whilst his disappointment may have been valid, I still don't think opting out to be the most sensible or appropriate response. Then again, I'm not in Gibson's boots and don't know the full facts of the story.
Duff is a better player than McClean and definately much more experienced. We play Germany in about 6 weeks and if I were in Tardelli's shoes I would want Duff back also
Duff is on a different planet to McClean, it isn't even close. Unfortunately not even McGeady has been getting close to Duff for Ireland.
I agree. I think it was wrong to do what he did. Even if he was right, he comes across as nothing but a spoiled idiot. I'm not condoning how he acted, but forgetting the fact it is Ireland, and just looking at how things unfolded, I can understand it.
First he gets named in the squad only to see a guy called up as a replacement(who nobody can argue is much better than Gibson in the role asked) see the game time that Darron assumed would be his.
Maybe when he wanted to leave after the Spanish game, he was convinced to stay because his chance would come?
Maybe when he talked to Trap before the squad was announced and he asked for some assurances that it wouldn't happen again, but got fed the same rubbish about the Italy game that Trap said in the press conference?
Again, take Ireland away and look at those 3 things. 2 are speculation but if I played with any team and was treated in that sort of way I wouldn't have any interest in playing for that manager.
I still feel what he did was wrong. But at the same time, it takes a strong person who feels constantly humiliated to keep returning. Also, how can he possibly return for the next fixture after Trap publicly said he wasn't good enough for the Italy game?
To me that was a dirty dig from the manager. Putting Gibson in a position where he won't want to be around therefore alleviating Trap of any wrongdoing.
I'm only playing Devil's Advocate and trying to look at a different side of the story!
There's devil advocating, but then there's just being tin-hatted - still don't buy the idea the manager is intentionally alienating players.
To be honest I just don't see the Green thing as that big a deal. Sure - playing in a major tournament is a great accolade - but let's be realistic, we're talking about five minutes at the end of a hammering. And the bigger picture was the squad had just exited the tournament. Yet Gibson appears only to be thinking of himself at that moment.
You answer the call because you want to play, not because you expect to. The only difference between Gibson and most of the others in the squad (many of whom have been similarly overlooked) is his attitude stinks.
Ou-est le Centre George Pompidou?
With Green called up after Gibson as a replacement for Fahey, Gibson probably saw himself as being ahead of Green in the pecking order, through both his and Trap's eyes. Still, that doesn't justify any expectation or presumptuousness.
Trap's words appear to indicate it's nothing personal between the two - that Gibson's disappointment is down to the general performance of the team, but I imagine there has to be more to it than that - so it would be interesting to hear Gibson's side.
I don't think Trap actually came out and said he wasn't good enough, or did he? Trap said he didn't play him against Italy as it might have compromised Trap's reputation. Although, I suppose implicit in Trap's expressed fear of fielding what could have been perceived as a weakened team against Italy is the notion that Gibson's inclusion would indeed have amounted to weakening the team.I still feel what he did was wrong. But at the same time, it takes a strong person who feels constantly humiliated to keep returning. Also, how can he possibly return for the next fixture after Trap publicly said he wasn't good enough for the Italy game?
To me that was a dirty dig from the manager. Putting Gibson in a position where he won't want to be around therefore alleviating Trap of any wrongdoing.
Complete nonsense. Gibson is guilty of being honest and giving up something that obviously meant something to him. Irish times and Pravda/RTE driven rubbish.
I didn't say it didn't mean anything to him. I'm sure he thought hard about the decision. I just said his attitude stinks.
Would you like a squad of players so sensitive they throw their toys when overlooked by the same manager who brought them in and stood by them when most would have discarded them?
You don't think players should knuckle down when disappointed? Redouble their efforts? Be proud to play for their country as opposed to selfishly considering only their own prospects and ducking out of a long-haul away trip?
I can see where Gibson's coming from, I just think it's ridiculous and way OTT. It's a very disappointing indictment of his attitude, an attitude which the likes of Kelly, Wilson, McCarthy, McClean, Coleman, Long and Walters (in the current squad) could also have but - surprise, surprise - don't because they're not complete babies.
Eh? Media's on a bit of an anti-Trap trip, imo, but regardless, I have no idea what you're on about.
Ou-est le Centre George Pompidou?
I think Trap's man management is very poor right now. His players from yesteryear like Brady and Hamann all talk about his manangement abilities as being why he was a great manager. However, he strikes me now as a stubborn old man, who has poor English (hence communication skills) and is on a cushy retirement number. He genuinely cares about Ireland doing well, but he isn't going to put in the hard graft to deal with difficult and temperamental players or be creative in working with lads like Hoolahan, by having to change his tactics to do so.
In relation to Gibson, I think despite the above, Gibson's attitude is totally wrong. I can understand lads like Gibson, McCarthy, Wilson, Coleman and now McClean being peeved, but keep the head down and get in the team. He just strikes me as a petulant stroppy brat by doing what he did. James McCathy who is imo an outstanding talent is a breath of fresh air compared to Gibson.
Gibson ruled out for over a month.
So there won't be any rush on him coming back. If Meyler beds in, and Fahey returns, it'll probably take injuries to for him to get back in (if he wants back that is).
Ou-est le Centre George Pompidou?
At least now the whole Gibson selection or non selection won't be all over the press in the lead up to the Germany game now..
Just the McClean/McCarthy/Brady/Wilson/Coleman selection/non-selection then.
Yep.
And Mr. Ireland will probably fancy a game about three weeks before, only if he's asked nicely of course, in that helpful right on cue way of his.
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