Darron Gibson

[EalingGreen]

Totally agree. Ferguson clearly rates him. Expect him to get a longer run out on saturday (probably a start) at home against Blackburn. It's the last game before the Carling Cup final so Ferguson will be keen to give him as much game time as possible before the 1st March

Imo Saturday was an good indicator of how Ferguson rates Gibson's progress to date.
Essentially, he is a "second string" player, so will feature in "lesser" games and/or when MU have a lot of injuries in midfield.
However, he is not (yet) rated good enough by Ferguson to get in the 18-man squad for crucial games, such as the EPL or CL.
Which is no disgrace at all for one so young and inexperienced, but there must still be a question mark as to whether/when he can make the step up to making Fergie's matchday 18 for big games, as e.g. Evans, O'Shea and Brown have done, never mind whether he will become a regular starter in such games.

P.S. Saturday vs B'burn was not the last game before the CC Final; there's the small matter of the San Siro to come first... And Ferguson would never risk fielding less than his best XI for an EPL game (at least before the title is secured), solely in order to give someone like Gibson "game time" for so relatively unimportant a game such as the CC Final.

[John83]

P.S. Saturday vs B'burn was not the last game before the CC Final; there's the small matter of the San Siro to come first... And Ferguson would never risk fielding less than his best XI for an EPL game (at least before the title is secured), solely in order to give someone like Gibson "game time" for so relatively unimportant a game such as the CC Final.

Actually, he used do that all the time when the team was so dominant that it didn't matter. Quinten Fortune and Luke Chadwick aren't exactly names to scare the average full back these days, but they got plenty of runs in league games in their time.

Of course, things are more competitive there now.

[Qwerty]

Imo Saturday was an good indicator of how Ferguson rates Gibson's progress to date.
Essentially, he is a "second string" player, so will feature in "lesser" games and/or when MU have a lot of injuries in midfield.
However, he is not (yet) rated good enough by Ferguson to get in the 18-man squad for crucial games, such as the EPL or CL.
Which is no disgrace at all for one so young and inexperienced, but there must still be a question mark as to whether/when he can make the step up to making Fergie's matchday 18 for big games, as e.g. Evans, O'Shea and Brown have done, never mind whether he will become a regular starter in such games.

P.S. Saturday vs B'burn was not the last game before the CC Final; there's the small matter of the San Siro to come first... And Ferguson would never risk fielding less than his best XI for an EPL game (at least before the title is secured), solely in order to give someone like Gibson "game time" for so relatively unimportant a game such as the CC Final.

Oh come on, Fergie started Carrick & Scholes, Fletcher was on the bench, that's not a reflection on Gibson's progress this season.

[EalingGreen]

Oh come on, Fergie started Carrick & Scholes, Fletcher was on the bench, that's not a reflection on Gibson's progress this season.

I suspect you are being deceived as to his "progress" by developments in English football over the last 10 years.

Nowadays, the "big" games (EPL and CL) are so important and therefore so pressurised that they have become all-consuming, to the detriment of the "lesser" games (FA and Carling Cups, internationals, even).

Further, teams are allowed to introduce 3 subs from seven on the bench. Therefore, the likes of MU now operate a two tier squad system, whereby the top 18 or 20 players are utilised for the big games, with the players for the lesser games being drawn from the next tier of (10 or 12) players.

Gibson is clearly within that second tier.

Whereas in previous times, the top players generally played (when fit) in all of the first team games, regardless of what competition. Indeed, the Rules which require teams always to field their strongest possible XI were enforced (whereas now they are ignored)

One of the consequences of this former situation was that Reserve football was much more significant (and competitive) than it is today. For with a matchday squad of say 13 players, with only one sub allowed, if anyone not in the First XI didn't play for the Reserves, he wouldn't get any match practice at all from one week to the next. Whereas now, fringe first team players get sufficient run-outs from the subs bench or in lesser games, that the Reserves at big clubs are now used as a "development" team for promising young teenagers etc.

Therefore, had Gibson been playing 10 or 15 years ago, he would have been firmly identified as a MU Reserve, or he would have moved permanently to a second string club (Wolves?) in order to get games.

Which is no shame for one so young, but we should not view him as being of MU "first team standard", merely because he gets the odd run out in the Carling Cup etc.

P.S. By way of comparison, I'd say Jonny Evans is of MU first team standard, since Fergie trusts him for the big games when necessary, even over seasoned players like O'Shea and Brown. Indeed, were Ferdinand and Vidic not truly exceptional (World Class?), he'd be making 40 starts a season for MU (imo). As it is, he'd be a regular starter in just about every other EPL club bar a couple.

[shakermaker1982]

Manchester United have 3 out and out central defenders at this moment in time: Ferdinand, Vidic and Evans. Wes Brown can play there but is out of the picture this season

Central midfield is a tad more competitive: Scholes, Carrick, Anderson, Hargreaves (injured I know), Fletcher and Gibson all vying for two slots if Fergie goes 4-4-2. Giggs can slot in there no bother as well if required. I'm sure if Man Utd had 5 international class central defenders then Evans would also be in the same boat as Gibson i.e biding his time waiting for his opportunity to shine. It's too early to tell if Gibson can make the grade at Manchester United but I wouldn't right him off just yet.

[youngirish]

I suspect you are being deceived as to his "progress" by developments in English football over the last 10 years.

Nowadays, the "big" games (EPL and CL) are so important and therefore so pressurised that they have become all-consuming, to the detriment of the "lesser" games (FA and Carling Cups, internationals, even).

Further, teams are allowed to introduce 3 subs from seven on the bench. Therefore, the likes of MU now operate a two tier squad system, whereby the top 18 or 20 players are utilised for the big games, with the players for the lesser games being drawn from the next tier of (10 or 12) players.

Gibson is clearly within that second tier.

Whereas in previous times, the top players generally played (when fit) in all of the first team games, regardless of what competition. Indeed, the Rules which require teams always to field their strongest possible XI were enforced (whereas now they are ignored)

One of the consequences of this former situation was that Reserve football was much more significant (and competitive) than it is today. For with a matchday squad of say 13 players, with only one sub allowed, if anyone not in the First XI didn't play for the Reserves, he wouldn't get any match practice at all from one week to the next. Whereas now, fringe first team players get sufficient run-outs from the subs bench or in lesser games, that the Reserves at big clubs are now used as a "development" team for promising young teenagers etc.

Therefore, had Gibson been playing 10 or 15 years ago, he would have been firmly identified as a MU Reserve, or he would have moved permanently to a second string club (Wolves?) in order to get games.

Which is no shame for one so young, but we should not view him as being of MU "first team standard", merely because he gets the odd run out in the Carling Cup etc.

P.S. By way of comparison, I'd say Jonny Evans is of MU first team standard, since Fergie trusts him for the big games when necessary, even over seasoned players like O'Shea and Brown. Indeed, were Ferdinand and Vidic not truly exceptional (World Class?), he'd be making 40 starts a season for MU (imo). As it is, he'd be a regular starter in just about every other EPL club bar a couple.

Why do people even entertain this orange tinted, Northern Ireland, biased, drivel? A man who claims that Gibson wouldn't get into a team ahead of the likes of Sammy the Kilngon is at best partial and at worst slightly demented.

Everything he says about Gibson is tainted with the taste of sour grapes. If Gibson was in the NI squad EG would be claiming he was the next Roy Keane and we all know he would be starting regularly whatever EG likes to believe (Johnny Evans was getting his game for NI before he even broke into the United squad).

P.S. Who cares about Johnny Evans? He's not a ROI international. If you want to overhype him to ridiculous levels go to ourweecountry.com and find some similarly deluded minds to discuss him with. What I will ask is do you know what the Jimmy Murphy Award is? Look it up I think you'll find Gibson won it ahead of Evans a couple of years ago.

P.P.S. You don't seem to be so smug lately it must be because NI are back down where they belong in the FIFA rankings as I correctly stated they'd be this time last year. Actually sorry that's not true they've still a few places to fall before they've found their level.

[kingdomkerry]

Why do people even entertain this orange tinted, Northern Ireland, biased, drivel? A man who claims that Gibson wouldn't get into a team ahead of the likes of Sammy the Kilngon is at best impartial and at worst slightly demented.

Everything he says about Gibson is tainted with the taste of sour grapes. If Gibson was in the NI squad EG would be claiming he was the next Roy Keane and we all know he would be starting regularly whatever EG likes to believe (Johnny Evans was getting his game for NI before he even broke into the United squad).

P.S. Who cares about Johnny Evans? He's not a ROI international. If you want to overhype him to ridiculous levels go to ourweecountry.com and find some similarly deluded minds to discuss him with. What I will ask is do you know what the Jimmy Murphy Award is? Look it up I think you'll find Gibson won it ahead of Evans a couple of years ago.

P.P.S. You don't seem to be so smug lately it must be because NI are back down where they belong in the FIFA rankings as I correctly stated they'd be this time last year. Actually sorry that's not true they've still a few places to fall before they've found their level.

You got it in one!

[EalingGreen]

Manchester United have 3 out and out central defenders at this moment in time: Ferdinand, Vidic and Evans. Wes Brown can play there but is out of the picture this season

Central midfield is a tad more competitive: Scholes, Carrick, Anderson, Hargreaves (injured I know), Fletcher and Gibson all vying for two slots if Fergie goes 4-4-2. Giggs can slot in there no bother as well if required. I'm sure if Man Utd had 5 international class central defenders then Evans would also be in the same boat as Gibson i.e biding his time waiting for his opportunity to shine. It's too early to tell if Gibson can make the grade at Manchester United but I wouldn't right him off just yet.

Central midfield is hardly more competitive at OT than centre back (imo), since each has five genuine contenders (i.e. internationals) for two slots:
CM - Scholes, Carrick, Anderson, Hargreaves and Fletcher
CB - Vidic, Ferdinand, Evans, O'Shea and Brown. (Plus Gary Neville can slot in there, if required, just like Giggs in CM)

Imo, had Hargreaves and Carrick not suffered so many injuries this season, Gibson wouldn't have got even so many games in CM as he has.

As for CB, we can be sure that Fergie is happy with his choice of two from five by the sale of Gerard Pique to Barcelona for £3m(?), as against his refusal to sell Evans to Sunderland for £8m.
Pique was frustrated by his position in the pecking order at OT, yet afaik he has since proven good enough to get a regular place in the Barca XI, and was called up to the Spanish squad for their game against England a couple of weeks back.

[ifk101]

As for CB, we can be sure that Fergie is happy with his choice of two from five by the sale of Gerard Pique to Barcelona for £3m(?), as against his refusal to sell Evans to Sunderland for £8m.
Pique was frustrated by his position in the pecking order at OT, yet afaik he has since proven good enough to get a regular place in the Barca XI, and was called up to the Spanish squad for their game against England a couple of weeks back.

It's hardly that clear cut, now is it?

Regardless it's a fruitless exercise comparing the potential of 2 players that don't play in the same position.

I'm sure Gibson and the rest of this forum are well aware that he has plenty of work to do before he becomes a regular for ManU and Ireland.

[livehead1]

Who really cares? I'm just glad he turned his back on the North in order to play for us. In fact, I must say I'm delighted every time another young lad does it as it adds to our pool of available players.

[EalingGreen]

Why do people even entertain this orange tinted, Northern Ireland, biased, drivel?

An innate sense of toleration which you lack, perhaps?

A man who claims that Gibson wouldn't get into a team ahead of the likes of Sammy the Kilngon is at best impartial and at worst slightly demented.

You're dismissing a seasoned Championship player in favour of someone who has made either one or no starts in the EPL.
Indeed, Gibson's CV to date shows a handful of games in the minor cups or "dead" CL games for MU, 21 games in English Championship football and 33 games in the Belgian 2nd Division (equivalent to English League Two?)
You might prefer to pick him for international duty ahead of Johnson, Davis and Clingan, who between them have literally hundreds of appearances in the EPL, SPL or English Championship (as well as 100 international caps), but I wouldn't.
More to the point, Trapattoni preferred Andrews and Whelan, neither of whom has a superior pedigree to the NI three, over Gibson for ROI's most recent "must win" game at home to Georgia.
P.S. I think you mean "partial"...

Everything he says about Gibson is tainted with the taste of sour grapes. If Gibson was in the NI squad EG would be claiming he was the next Roy Keane and we all know he would be starting regularly whatever EG likes to believe

Really? Here is what I think. Gibson should certainly be good enough to get in the NI squad, but due to his youth and lack of experience, it would take injury to two of Davis, Clingan and Johnson before he would be considered, and then he would be competing for a place against McCann, O'Connor and Baird (a CB who has been picked in the holding midfield position by both Fulham and NI this season).

(Johnny Evans was getting his game for NI before he even broke into the United squad).

Evans was first picked by NI at LB in an emergency against Spain (Sanchez had fallen out with McCartney and Capaldi was injured). This was the Spanish team which went on to become European Champions and World No.1 in the rankings, including Torres, Villa and Gonzales up front.
Meanwhile, as well as Evans, NI picked a Central Midfield of Clingan and Davis, with Baird guarding the back four, up against (ahem) Alonso, Albelda, Hernandez and Fabregas.
Since that victory, Evans has never looked back, for club or country.
http://en.euro2008.uefa.com/tourname...713/index.html

P.S. Who cares about Johnny Evans? He's not a ROI international. If you want to overhype him to ridiculous levels go to ourweecountry.com and find some similarly deluded minds to discuss him with. What I will ask is do you know what the Jimmy Murphy Award is? Look it up I think you'll find Gibson won it ahead of Evans a couple of years ago.

Being of similar age and background (as well as good friends), Evans offers a very good comparison to Gibson. Both had similarly promising beginnings at OT. Evans is slightly younger. Yet whilst Evans is now a fixture in the first choice 18 on matchdays, including regular starts, Gibson only features in lesser games (and then usually only following injuries).
And yes, I do know what the Jimmy Murphy Award is. In terms of youth football, it's quite an accolade, but in terms of adult football, it means very little, since youthful potential often doesn't translate into adult achievement.

P.P.S. You don't seem to be so smug lately it must be because NI are back down where they belong in the FIFA rankings as I correctly stated they'd be this time last year. Actually sorry that's not true they've still a few places to fall before they've found their level.

That's as may be, but it has no relevance to the merits or otherwise of Darron Gibson as a player, which for all his future potential, is still imo essentially that of a MU Reserve*

* - In the traditional sense of the term

[EalingGreen]

it's a fruitless exercise comparing the potential of 2 players that don't play in the same position.

Except I wasn't just basing my assessment of Gibson on a comparison of him and Evans. I have also compared his record with that of the midfield of a similar ranking international team (NI), plus that of the two players who most recently kept him out of the ROI team, Whelan and Andrews, none of whom is exactly a world beater.

I'm sure Gibson and the rest of this forum are well aware that he has plenty of work to do before he becomes a regular for ManU and Ireland.

Try telling that to Kingdom Kerry and Young Irish, then

[kingdomkerry]

ZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[EalingGreen]

Who really cares? I'm just glad he turned his back on the North in order to play for us. In fact, I must say I'm delighted every time another young lad does it as it adds to our pool of available players.

Regardless of whether I think he should be entitled to play for ROI or not, I actually tend to agree with you, since I don't want players in the NI team whose hearts aren't in it, any more than you do such players in the ROI team (Stephen Ireland?).

In fact, even should Gibson go on to achieve genuinely top class status, I'll still take more pride in the performances of "average" performers, so long as they put in 100% in an NI shirt.

On which point, whether Superstar or Journeyman, you're welcome to Gibson.

[SkStu]

here is a typical discussion between Ealing Green and the rest of Foot.ie

Foot.ie Poster 1: fckin hell that Paddy might be a decent player in a few years

Ealing Green: no good, wouldnt make the NI team, snipe snipe snipe

Foot.ie Poster 2: ah now, come on lad, in fairness, all i said was

Ealing Green: snipe snipe snipe

Foot.ie Poster 3: ah come on now, seriously

Ealing Green: snipe snipe snipe

Foot.ie Poster 4: are you seriously saying Billy's better than Paddy?

Ealing Green: snipe-ity, snipe snipe, snippy snipe

Foot.ie Poster 5: FCK YOU, YOU ORANGE TINTED SO AND SO!

Ealing Green: BINGO!!!!! [quote], snipe, [quote], snipe, [quote], snipe, [quote], snipe

Mod: Keep it on topic lads. FP#5, one week suspension...

Ealing Green: Where to next?....

[EalingGreen]

here is a typical discussion between Ealing Green and the rest of Foot.ie

Foot.ie Poster 1: fckin hell that Paddy might be a decent player in a few years

Ealing Green: no good, wouldnt make the NI team, snipe snipe snipe

Foot.ie Poster 2: ah now, come on lad, in fairness, all i said was

Ealing Green: snipe snipe snipe

Foot.ie Poster 3: ah come on now, seriously

Ealing Green: snipe snipe snipe

Foot.ie Poster 4: are you seriously saying Billy's better than Paddy?

Ealing Green: snipe-ity, snipe snipe, snippy snipe

Foot.ie Poster 5: FCK YOU, YOU ORANGE TINTED SO AND SO!

Ealing Green: BINGO!!!!! snipe, snipe, snipe, snipe

Mod: Keep it on topic lads. FP#5, one week suspension...

Ealing Green: Where to next?....

Very good.

Now any thoughts on Gibson?

No?

[youngirish]

P.S. I think you mean "partial"...

Thank you for noticing that little snippet. Now amended.

[SkStu]

Very good.

Now any thoughts on Gibson?

No?

i am of the same opinion as Foot.ie Poster 1.

From what ive have seen/read/heard he will be a very good player in a few years but not ready for international football yet.

[geysir]

I don't think he was actually asking you a question SkStu, more of a grumpy snipe.

It's hard to keep a straight face when a supporter of a team preparing for the unavoidable steep descent to their destined 5th place in their group (despite the herculean efforts from an over performing NI team), would be extolling the merits of the selection of say Grunt McCann over the equisite Darron Gibson as he polishes his boots in preparation for a Wembley Cup Final.

[DeLorean]

Central midfield is hardly more competitive at OT than centre back (imo), since each has five genuine contenders (i.e. internationals) for two slots:
CM - Scholes, Carrick, Anderson, Hargreaves and Fletcher
CB - Vidic, Ferdinand, Evans, O'Shea and Brown. (Plus Gary Neville can slot in there, if required, just like Giggs in CM)

Good point. Lots of other good points in fairness. It's obvious that you have a huge bias toward the North but I still couldn't disagree with most of what u said. I would be of the opinion that the Republic have much more quality in general than the North at present but couldn't argue that when it comes to centre mid there's feck all in it....well with the players that Trapp has is using anyway.