Wider Middle East conflict

**Saint Tom** · 17/07/2006, 12:13 PM

Hi Guys,

Just wondering what peoples take on the situation at the moment in the middle east. Hamas/Hizbollah raids followed by severe Israeli retaliation. To me it just seems to be a conflict that has no resolution that is satisfactory to both sides. My biggest fear is if it became a wider conflict, possibly involving Iran. To be honest dont think the israeli cabinet will hold back on using their arsnal if that is the case

**Poor Student** · 17/07/2006, 12:17 PM

I'm surprised this hasn't come up yet. It's frightening stuff. I can't believe how far backwards things have gone in the last month. Talk about reopening old wounds.

**Saint Tom** · 17/07/2006, 12:28 PM

My boss is a member of the jewish community here and through his contacts we would have a lot of jewish customers (both irish and israelis) coming into the branch, and they see this as a sort of frustration that has built up over security fources in Lebanon and Gaza being unable to control the actions of militants. Watching sky news there and Rockets landing on Haifa with alarming frequency and Israeli troops just been deployed on the ground in the Leb. I really think it is about to take off, unfortunately

**Poor Student** · 17/07/2006, 12:41 PM

A state does have a right to defend itself, but Israel are hurting a terrible amount of civilians in the process. I can't see how things can come back from the brink, it really seems a line has been crossed here.

**Saint Tom** · 17/07/2006, 12:48 PM

agreed, the whole region has gone back years this last month. Think Russia hit the nail on the head when they spoke of balanced/proportionate retaliation

**beautifulrock** · 17/07/2006, 1:11 PM

Have Israeli troops gone into Lebanon?? if so that is extremely worrying. Israel will not defeat Hizbollah this way, you cannot drive out an organisation this is entwined with the largest community (Shia Muslims) in the country. Hizbollah are better armed that anyone thought and its mainly Lebanese civilians that are bearing the brunt of the onslaught. It can only be days before Syria gets at the very least a bloody nose from Israel. What will happen then? what other middle eastern countries will get involved. The UN sits on its hands (again). Worrying times indeed.

**Poor Student** · 17/07/2006, 1:22 PM

Yeah, I've been wondering about Syria myself. I thought Lebannon was making progress in wrangling away from them. Are Syria pushing and helping Hizbollah to destabilise thing in Lebannon?

**beautifulrock** · 17/07/2006, 1:32 PM

Yes, Leb as a country is trying to develop and stand on its own two feet. Beirut and the airport are (where) the two shining lights and used as an example of the way forward. However, Hizbollah are heavily reliant on both Syria and Iran for weapons, money etc.

**paul_oshea** · 17/07/2006, 1:36 PM

i have to keep my mouth shut here, but I dont care what anyone says, the retaliation by israel is completely unjust and wrong. they dont care. the problem is they hold too much bloody power in congress in america and they are a base/back door for the US into the middle east.

remember the two irish soldiers killed by israeli forces in the lebanon in the early 80s??!!?

**Metrostars** · 17/07/2006, 3:10 PM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

i have to keep my mouth shut here, but I dont care what anyone says, the retaliation by israel is completely unjust and wrong. they dont care.

So are raids into Israel by Hezbollah and capturing Israeli solders ok? And sending a large number of rockets into Haifa? Should they say, "Thats fine, you can do that" ?

the problem is they hold too much bloody power in congress in america

Israel doesnt have any members in the US congress, but the US is an ally of Israel. And they don't care what anyone says.

and they are a base/back door for the US into the middle east.

Except that the US doesnt need to use Israel as a "base/back door for the US into the middle east."

**Saint Tom** · 17/07/2006, 3:44 PM

from what I can gather, the incursions into Lebanon were limited to elite troops and not an attempt to re-occupy. Read a great book on the leb.. Pity the Nation by Robert Fisk. Highly recommended

Syria is a strong ally of Iran, would be a disaster to get them involved, I see that as the biggest potential problem

**beautifulrock** · 17/07/2006, 4:02 PM

Metro, fair point re the reaction to the capture of Israeli soldiers and I agree that every nation has the right to protect itself and its borders. However, I am sure you agree that the killing of civilians in Leb to the degree that is happening at the moment is not acceptable. The Fisk book referred to is above average and a great read.

**paul_oshea** · 17/07/2006, 4:27 PM

metrostars, can you give me an explanation then as to why america is such a "close" ally of israel and always has been. the windy city is a typical example of how money is power in america, and many of those elected congressman have the backing ( the money to *help* them get there ) from very wealthy business ( owned, part owned, or run by jews ).

anyhow thats going off topic, if you want to detabe that open up another thread and I will get into it more.

There is no excuse for the strenght and power of the onslaught israel has retaliated with in the last week.

**Metrostars** · 17/07/2006, 5:02 PM

Originally Posted by beautifulrock

Metro, fair point re the reaction to the capture of Israeli soldiers and I agree that every nation has the right to protect itself and its borders. However, I am sure you agree that the killing of civilians in Leb to the degree that is happening at the moment is not acceptable. The Fisk book referred to is above average and a great read.

I agree 100% with you.

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

metrostars, can you give me an explanation then as to why america is such a "close" ally of israel and always has been.

Good article to read: http://www.geocities.com/d_elazar/Te...peacemaker.htm

**wws** · 17/07/2006, 5:13 PM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

and many of those elected congressman have the backing ( the money to *help* them get there ) from very wealthy business ( owned, part owned, or run by jews ).

substitute the word jews for catholics/protestants etc etc and the same is true for other interest groups across the board

**Marked Man** · 17/07/2006, 6:20 PM

Even prior to the issue with Hezbollah, the Israeli army had bombed the only power generator in Gaza, and bombed many of the bridges. Without power, neither water nor sewage disposal is available. How can putting the lives of thousands at risk in this way be justified on the basis of rescuing one soldier? I'm not saying that Israel shouldn't try to rescue its soldiers, but can this really be the best way to do it? It seems suspiciously like they've been waiting for provocation for something like this since Hamas won the election.

**bennocelt** · 17/07/2006, 6:49 PM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

i have to keep my mouth shut here, but I dont care what anyone says, the retaliation by israel is completely unjust and wrong. they dont care. the problem is they hold too much bloody power in congress in america and they are a base/back door for the US into the middle east.

remember the two irish soldiers killed by israeli forces in the lebanon in the early 80s??!!?

i agree
anyway i dont recognise Israel at all
palestine has a right to defend itself too

**paul_oshea** · 17/07/2006, 8:21 PM

substitute the word jews for catholics/protestants etc etc and the same is true for other interest groups across the board

ya wws, ireland and england being the only - wholly - two catholic/protestant "states" in the world. think man think. :/

bennocelt, it is an illegal state. has never been recognised. 1979 wasnt just the year the pope came to ireland!!!!!!!!!

just a few facts for ye metrostars - that you and others probably werent aware of - the israelies have captured thousands of lebanese civilians imprisoned them indefiniately without trial, fired missiles over the border and killed scores of lebonese shepherds, nor is the fact israel kept targeting hamas members for assassination long after hamas agreed to a ceasefire, also the crushing irony of destroying the doctrine bush epoused post 2001, whereby democracy should be allowed to flourish in the middle east, they punished palestinians, for voting in hamas, in free and democractic elections, by cutting off finances they collected on behalf of the palestinian goverment and cutting off vital money needed for medical equipment....do ye want me to keep goign? they have been looking for an excuse to do this for a long time, and this little predicament has given them that excuse.

One day Israel will understand that it can bomb Gaza, the Westbank, Lebanon and probably Syria back to the stone age, but all they wil

**paul_oshea** · 17/07/2006, 8:39 PM

One day Israel will understand that it can bomb Gaza, the Westbank, Lebanon and probably Syria back to the stone age, but all they will achieve is to increase the number of people who have nothing to lose, and think Israel is the cause of this. Just the sort of people who go on to become suicide bombers!

**dancinpants** · 17/07/2006, 9:05 PM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

One day Israel will understand that it can bomb Gaza, the Westbank, Lebanon and probably Syria back to the stone age, but all they will achieve is to increase the number of people who have nothing to lose, and think Israel is the cause of this. Just the sort of people who go on to become suicide bombers!

Ammm, I think Iran would have something to say about that...infact they have already warned Israel that they'd be better off not attacking Syrian, otherwise they'd face severe consequences.