Wider Middle East conflict

[Dodge]

This will contribute nothing to the debate but everytime I start to read into the Middle East I get so frustrated and have to leave it. The whole thing sickens/frightens and scares me at alternative stages and for every legitimate point I hear, there's an equally legitimate point made against it.

As it stands, apart from a TV/cinema documentaries, I leave this area alone.

Now, on with your discussions...

[Metrostars]

ya wws, ireland and england being the only - wholly - two catholic/protestant "states" in the world. think man think. :/

bennocelt, it is an illegal state. has never been recognised. 1979 wasnt just the year the pope came to ireland!!!!!!!!!

just a few facts for ye metrostars - that you and others probably werent aware of - the israelies have captured thousands of lebanese civilians imprisoned them indefiniately without trial, fired missiles over the border and killed scores of lebonese shepherds, nor is the fact israel kept targeting hamas members for assassination long after hamas agreed to a ceasefire, also the crushing irony of destroying the doctrine bush epoused post 2001, whereby democracy should be allowed to flourish in the middle east, they punished palestinians, for voting in hamas, in free and democractic elections, by cutting off finances they collected on behalf of the palestinian goverment and cutting off vital money needed for medical equipment....do ye want me to keep goign? they have been looking for an excuse to do this for a long time, and this little predicament has given them that excuse.

One day Israel will understand that it can bomb Gaza, the Westbank, Lebanon and probably Syria back to the stone age, but all they wil

And you are telling me this because???? I never said I wholey supported Israel. All I said was that Israel has a right to defend itself when they are attacked. And that their response was too heavy handed.

[beautifulrock]

What happens next is the question. Israel say they will not stop until they disarm the Hizbollah. If this is the case then the answer will be never. This is now the ideal recruiting ground for the Hizbollah. I am also convinced that Israel will launch at least one attack on Syria to show who is boss and to slap them down for the continued support to Hizbollah. We have to hope that Iran does not then feel the need to protect Syria. At this moment I believe Iran will not get involved unless Israel go over the top with Syria ( a real possibility of course).

[paul_oshea]

And you are telling me this because???? I never said I wholey supported Israel. All I said was that Israel has a right to defend itself when they are attacked. And that their response was too heavy handed.

No, because you were dis-agreeing with everything I said without actually backing up what you were saying. I backed up my argument. Also answer me this, why did america stop the invasion of kuwait and send in ground troops backed up by the navy???? how come nobody is talking about sending in a ground force to stop the IDF invading lebanon.

[wws]

ya wws, ireland and england being the only - wholly - two catholic/protestant "states" in the world. think man think. :/

I cant believe you follow up one farcical comment with this little gem!

Only ones are they? thats news to me and the rest of the world and has nothing to do with the point I was making. To single out "Jews" as lobbying in the states is to show such stunning disregard for the entire US history and the political system there were every conceivable interest group organise lobbying and try and exert influence its just gas!

[paul_oshea]

Only ones are they? thats news to me and the rest of the world and has nothing to do with the point I was making

exactly my point, i would have thought you spotted the irony....did you honestly not cop what i was getting at? Israel is the only jewish-run-state in the world

its not gas. its fact. america has a key interest in israel thus providing its government with money and weapons to fund its "defence" forces...

do you think if the British army came back into N. Ireland and fired a rocket or whatever over into the republic that the irish government would send the Irish Defence Forces to go out all guns blazing ( excuse the pun ) attacking northern ireland....

[wws]

america has key interests everywhere man

including here

[paul_oshea]

ya....man

[wws]

glad to keep u in the picture

now watch out for those Jews man!

[paul_oshea]

now watch out for those Jews man!

don't worry i live with one, im always keeping BOTH eyes in my socket and well open

[Metrostars]

No, because you were dis-agreeing with everything I said without actually backing up what you were saying. I backed up my argument. Also answer me this, why did america stop the invasion of kuwait and send in ground troops backed up by the navy???? how come nobody is talking about sending in a ground force to stop the IDF invading lebanon.

Que?
I was just disagreeing with your original assertion that Israel should not retaliate when they are attacked and that Israel controls the US congress. The other stuff you posted has nothing to do with that.

Then you asked why the US was an ally of Israel to which I post a link to a Economist article on the subject.

do you think if the British army came back into N. Ireland and fired a rocket or whatever over into the republic that the irish government would send the Irish Defence Forces to go out all guns blazing ( excuse the pun ) attacking northern ireland....

Sooo, what would you do? (seriously)

[paul_oshea]

actually, i had this discussion at lunch and my mate thought it would be a great idea to go bombing northern ireland and thought it would be completely justified. i just dont see this angle at all.

maybe i should turn it around what if we bombed into northern ireland, do you honestly think Britain would send in its army to the republic, if say the IRA or continuity IRA bombed a military base in N. Ireland from the republic. NO THEY WOULD NOT.

thats a better parallel than the original, as lebanon is like a smaller less powerful nation than israel, much like GB and Ireland

[Metrostars]

Well thats grand then Paul. Why bother having a defence force if you're not going to bother using it except for the odd peace mission for the UN?

[paul_oshea]

defence force is exactly that. not an offence force.

so do you think all these countries offering there jets( circa 2,000 and another 2 or so to go ) and navy ships to evacuate all their own peoples, is a lot smarter, wiser and safer than telling israel "cop the fcuk on"?!?!

[Saint Tom]

when surrounding heads of state vow to "wipe you off the face of the map" it is not so irrational to use the term "defence" force.

I dont believe it is Israels intention to get involved in a long drawn out affair, they will go ahead with their barrier and isolate themseleves from the rest of the middle east. Israelis dont want to destroy the arab way of life, they just want recognition of their right to exist and not be attacked.

[WeAreRovers]

Israelis dont want to destroy the arab way of life, they just want recognition of their right to exist and not be attacked.

And if you believe that...............

KOH

[dancinpants]

when surrounding heads of state vow to "wipe you off the face of the map" it is not so irrational to use the term "defence" force.

If thats reference to the Iranian PM's comment, he didn't "VOW" anything, he said Israel SHOULD be wiped off the map, thats a big difference from "VOWING" to actually do it.

[beautifulrock]

I think we all agree that some of Israel's neighbours do not help the situation by some of their statements. However, i also firmly believe that Israel do not help themselves and their history of flexing their power is tedious. The latest is that they are blaming Iran for the abduction of the two soldiers. This is not good news and a worrying change of "blame" direction. I am interested to know what Israels end game is?

[dfx-]

The latest is that they are blaming Iran for the abduction of the two soldiers.

Israel blame Iran...US blames Syria...Lebanon is caught in the middle until they decide, perhaps?

[paul_oshea]

ya no one is seeing lebanons side in this, just letting israel do as this please. this is going to be a generalisation that most will agree with but wont want me sayiing it, but all and i mean all, fair enough only about 20 jewish people, that I have met have an extremely arrogant streak, not noticeable at first, as they come across quite friendly but then when you get to know them more you can see it a mile off.

Israel, is an arrogant state, who do as they please and dont seem to have to answer to anyone, they flex their power because they feel they can do so. So where does it stop as you so rightly question beautiful rock?