Driving

[Metrostars]

It always easy to blame someone else but we ALL have a responsibility in driving safely. Perhaps I'm getting old (37 now) but I sure as hell don't drive as recklessly as I used to do. Maybe thats because I have kids now. I'm sorry to disagree with the likes of dahamsta, but Speeding=Bad Driving, imo. Speed limits are set for a reason, not just for other drivers/bystanders but also for you, the driver. Obtaining a driving license also includes a responsibility to drive safely.

That being said, I grew up driving on the back roads of County Galway but have now been driving in the US for 13 years. At this stage, whenever I go back home, I hate the thought of driving back there. And thats because there are so many people who think they are driving at Daytona or Silverstone. Yes, they do speed and yes I do think they are reckless.

[dahamsta]

I don't deny that speed limits are set for a reason, but many of them are set incorrectly, as in my example above; or for a different time (cars these days can travel faster, safer; roads can carry higher speeds, etc). More importantly, they're set to the lowest common denominator, and I am not that lowest common denominator.

I can drive better than most, because I understand cars better than most, because I understand physics better than most, because I spent time learning about how cars and people work when they're picking their nose in traffic. And before anyone tells me to watch out for that moron that walks into the street: I'm better equipped to deal with that too.

I'm intelligent to know that that's not going to happen on a motorway, or on a wide open street. Most Irish people aren't. If you remember, twenty years ago Irish people had to be told that there may be a possibility that children will run out from behind parked cars -- I kinda knew that already.

I believe we have to move away from lowest common denominator policies and lowest common denominator politics and politicians, they're slowly but surely turning homo sapiens into into a helpless, sticky mass of morons. People need to take more responsibility for themselves individually.

I'm sick of being nannied by proven incompetents. I'm sorry if people think it's wrong to say so, or cocky to say that I'm a better driver, but, well... I am.

adam

[Wiseguy]

Everybody has their bit to do when it comes to making our roads safer.I'd be the first to admit that i speed from time to time and i have no excuse for it.
IMO there are many reasons why we have so much carnage on our roads.
1) Driving at inappropiate speed and not driving to suit the road and the environment around you.This is a major factor in the amount of crashes we have on our roads and people need to wise up fast to this.
2) Poor enforcement of the laws.Most people believe they won't get caught so they break the rules of the road freely.Dedicated traffic corps in each and every county who are always on the road is needed to enforce the laws and once people start thinking that they will be caught they'll amend their ways.
3) Testing of drivers.You shouldn't be let near the road until you have completed x amount of driving lessons and passed a provisional driving test.Should you fail this then you should have to start all over again.Once you have passed you should be required by law to sit a full test after 9 months or so.Driving tests should also involve actually driving out on open roads and driving at night.Any idiot can drive around a town.This should help reduce the number of bad drivers on our roads and in turn reduce the number of crashes.
As i have said, everyone has a bit to play in reducing the number of crashes on our roads but as we all know in this country nothing gets done but nobody really cares.A complete overhaul of the whole sytem is needed and their is no chance of that happening.

[hoops1]

"I can drive better than most, because I understand cars better than most, because I understand physics better than most, because I spent time learning about how cars and people work when they're picking their nose in traffic. And before anyone tells me to watch out fo that moron that walks into the street: I'm better equipped to deal with that too". Quote.

Amazing quote! The mentality behind Irish road carnage summed up in one statement

[Gareth]

Adam, I find it hard to swallow your attitude to driving on the road. You state that you should be let speed because you are an incredible driver who is at one with your vehicle and its workings, and that you are well up on Physics. Now, on the other hand you say the road is full of ninnies? So back to my statement on speeding and yours on bad driving. If the road is full of bad driving ninnies, and that seems to be the majority makeup of the roadusers, and they don't have the same oneness with the road,car and physics as you do, then speeding on our roads is surely something we should try and control, whilst at the same time improving the average ninnies abilities in their vehicle. A law is there to serve to cover the entire population and if the majority of that population are bad drivers, then I say enforce the speed limits and don't remove or up them because Adam can take speed safely and react better than most.

Do you tailgate people in cars that are going slower than you'd like Adam?

I still say Adam that if your speeding and something appears in front of you, the laws of physics defines the distancerequired to bring the car to a stop, and the faster you go, the longer than distance is, and longer still in different conditions. Hence why in a built up area, you are forced to go 30mph or 50km ph. Not because the road is not good enough for you to go 90, but because there are too many possible random events, like kids tripping onto the road that would require you to slow in a shorter space.

Motorways, and the 120km ph speed limit. Its broken daily by most, I go 120 or slower, because its the law. Same reason I go 50 or less in a 50, etc etc.

they're set to the lowest common denominator, and I am not that lowest common denominator.

Do you not think that if driving a few miles slower will save lives, then its a good thing? And don't overexaggerate my point like you did with hoops1.

because I spent time learning about how cars and people work when they're picking their nose in traffic. And before anyone tells me to watch out fo that moron that walks into the street: I'm better equipped to deal with that too.

How does guys sitting stationary in traffic picking their noses relate to anything to do with improving your own driving, apart from the fact you should be paying mroe attention to the traffic lights and not the guy beside you's disgusting habits?

[dahamsta]

hoops1, the government came up with a plan to deal with road deaths to distract from their own inabilities, and people like you fell for it hook, line and sinker; repeating it willy-nilly as gospel. Did you do a jot of research into these issues individually before parroting them at people in places like this?

Gareth, you're going to complain about me exaggerating, and say that I call myself "an incredible driver" at the same time? You obviously haven't read the rest of the post properly either, since I preemptively dealt with your points; because the responses were obvious. Perhaps try reading it again.

As to whether I tailgate, it's precisely this kind of stereotyping that demonstrates bias by design with regard to this topic, for whatever reason, and precisely why I delineated between good drivers that speed and bad drivers in general earlier.

I'll restate my comment to hoops1 (albeit not directly at hoops1, because some people are beyond help) without overstating it: people are different, cars are different, roads are different. All or nothing doesn't just not work, it's not an intelligent approach. It's a childish, immature approach.

adam

[hoops1]

Sorry I forgot you understand cars and Physics.
I will leave you to your delusions of fantastic Eddie Irvine like
driving abilities
Im out of here

[Lionel Ritchie]

hoops1, the government came up with a plan to deal with road deaths to distract from their own inabilities, and people like you fell for it hook, line and sinker; repeating it willy-nilly as gospel. Did you do a jot of research into these issues individually before parroting them at people in places like this?

Gareth, you're going to complain about me exaggerating, and say that I call myself "an incredible driver" at the same time? You obviously haven't read the rest of the post properly either, since I preemptively dealt with your points; because the responses were obvious. Perhaps try reading it again.

As to whether I tailgate, it's precisely this kind of stereotyping that demonstrates bias by design with regard to this topic, for whatever reason, and precisely why I delineated between good drivers that speed and bad drivers in general earlier.

I'll restate my comment to hoops1 without overstating it: people are different, cars are different, roads are different. All or nothing doesn't just not work, it's not an intelligent approach. It's a childish, immature approach.

adam

Adam, you come across as a confident, well read and intelligent guy ...but your arrogance on this one leaves me a bit stuck for words.

I might not agree with the tack taken by the government in dealing with lots of road safety issues -but the idea that "they came up with a plan to deal with road deaths to distract from their own inabilites" is at best economical with the truth and at worst conspiracy-theorist clap-trap.

And as for..

people are different, cars are different, roads are different. All or nothing doesn't just not work, it's not an intelligent approach. It's a childish, immature approach.

...what are you offering by way of alternative to what you see as "all or nothing"? I ask you to clarify because it reads like you're advocating one set of road safety laws and behaviours for the "Alpha" driver who (reckons) knows what he's doing -and quite another for the common plebbery.

[dahamsta]

Adam, you come across as a confident, well read and intelligent guy ...but your arrogance on this one leaves me a bit stuck for words.

While I can understand that my assertions could be construed as arrogant, I'm not embarassed to make them. There is zero doubt in my mind that I am an above-average driver. I know how cars work better than most, I know their limits better than most - admittedly to some extent from driving like a twunt when I was younger, but I'm a more mature driver now - I'm more aware of prevailing conditions than most, and to some extent I'm more aware of how people work better than most; although that's something I would find difficult to prove. (I would have no problem proving my abilities in the other regards.)

I might not agree with the tack taken by the government in dealing with lots of road safety issues -but the idea that "they came up with a plan to deal with road deaths to distract from their own inabilites" is at best economical with the truth and at worst conspiracy-theorist clap-trap.

Perhaps it was overstated, since I subscribe to Hanlon's Razor to a certain extent. However the fact remains that the Government's track record on road safety is patchy at best, woeful at worst; in particular driver training, which is at the root of the "bad driving" problem. I'll say it again and again: speeding doesn't kill, bad driving kills. Which is why the "speeding kills" campaign is a sham, a cop-out, a distraction. That might not be their intention - hence Hanlon's Razor - but it remains the case.

...what are you offering by way of alternative to what you see as "all or nothing"? I ask you to clarify because it reads like you're advocating one set of road safety laws and behaviours for the "Alpha" driver who (reckons) knows what he's doing -and quite another for the common plebbery.

I honestly don't think there's a fixed solution on the speeding front at this time. I think the government needs to move away from using speeding as a revenue generation tactic (attempts to refute this will be ignored, the evidence is out there) and concentrate on driver training and licencing. Speeding laws certainly need to be upheld in the meantime, but they need to be addressed at a safety level, which includes interpretation of the the law.

I will tell you how to start minimising deaths on the road though: stop handing out licences like candy. Force people to take lessons before they're allowed drive on the road. Force new drivers to "wear" L plates, and carry qualified drivers. And take them off the road when they break these rules. Permanently.

adam

[Metrostars]

Sorry dahamsta, but you are a great driver only in your eyes. I'm sure there are also loads of 19 year olds who also think they're are good as Jeff Gordan or Micharl Schumacher. That is a subjective assumption. That is why speed limits are there, to try and slow down everyone, whether they think they are good drivers or not.

BTW, what are the fines for speeding nowadays there? I got a speeding ticket about 2 years ago on a Connecticut Interstate, stupidly doing 87mph in a 65 zone. Fine was $285. I was 3mph away from getting a reckless driving conviction with an appearance in court and possible suspension of my license. In CT, 3 speeding tickets(2 under 25 yo) within 3 years leads to a mandatory return to driving school or suspension of your license.

[dahamsta]

Sorry dahamsta, but you are a great driver only in your eyes.

How do you know? I could be a qualified advanced driving instructor for all you know. (I'm not, but I don't make statements I can't back up either. I'll happily submit to review by one of those fellas if someone else will pay for it.)

I'm sure there are also loads of 19 year olds who also think they're are good as Jeff Gordan or Micharl Schumacher.

There may be, but what's that got to do with me? My contention is very simple, and I'll say it for a third time: I am an above-average driver. I'm not saying - I never said - that I'm an expert, or anything like that. Just above average. Let's be honest, being above average isn't that hard in Ireland. The quality of driving is shocking.

adam

[osarusan]

I believe we have to move away from lowest common denominator policies and lowest common denominator politics and politicians, they're slowly but surely turning homo sapiens into into a helpless, sticky mass of morons. People need to take more responsibility for themselves individually.

It might cause a few more deaths but they were the idiots anyway!!

[dahamsta]

Sterilisation is the only way to go.

[osarusan]

Sterilisation is the only way to go.

I dont want to interfere with what is a serious debate, but...

You might be interested in this site.........ever heard of it?


http://www.darwinawards.com/

[NY Hoop]

How do you know? I could be a qualified advanced driving instructor for all you know. (I'm not, but I don't make statements I can't back up either. I'll happily submit to review by one of those fellas if someone else will pay for it.)

There may be, but what's that got to do with me? My contention is very simple, and I'll say it for a third time: I am an above-average driver. I'm not saying - I never said - that I'm an expert, or anything like that. Just above average. Let's be honest, being above average isn't that hard in Ireland. The quality of driving is shocking.

adam

Rainman also said he was an excellent driver.


KOH

[osarusan]

I will tell you how to start minimising deaths on the road though: stop handing out licences like candy. Force people to take lessons before they're allowed drive on the road. Force new drivers to "wear" L plates, and carry qualified drivers. And take them off the road when they break these rules. Permanently.

adam

This isnt meant to be a wind up in any way, it is a serious question.

Should all the above points be enforced, what should be done with somebody who admits speeding, but feels that because they are an above-average driver (a claim which may well be true), they dont think it is irresponsible?

[dahamsta]

I've already answered this: I believe it needs "to be addressed at a safety level, which includes interpretation of the the law". That interpretation should be used as regards learner drivers too. (There's a difference between not "wearing" L plates or not having a qualified driver in the car, and speeding. Speeding is relative, L plates are not.)

adam

EDIT: The "speeding kills" blunderbusses might want to take a look at the poll btw.

[crc]

Your linking of statements about attitudes towards obeying the law and the middle east is both bizzare and stupid

You can express an opinion all you like on Foot.ie, but if you call me or any another poster "stupid" again, you'll be out on your ear, understood?

I thoroughly take exception to your threats. If you think your position allows you to censor the debate by threatening posters with expulsion, then you're worse than the 'government' you so like to bash.
FWIW, hoops1 did not call you stupid, he mere said that "your linking of statements... is... stupid" (which of course, it is).

Let's be honest, being above average isn't that hard in Ireland.
adam

You may be a good physicist, but you're no statistician. Being above average only requires you to be above 50%, so its no harder, nor no easier than being "above average" in any domain.

The last time I was done for speeding was at 1am on the way back from Shannon, in a 50kph zone that had been created as a kneejerk because of a crash. The crash happened during the day, not at night when you can see other cars because of those "light" things they have. The Gardaí hid their car under a petrol station canopy. There was zero traffic on the road.

This is, in fact, your most farcical comment. First you claim that people can see better in the dark (sure you can see 'lights' from further away, but what about those magical objects that don't have "light things"??), and second, you say that the Gardaí 'hid' their car in a petrol station. A petrol station!!! Was this petrol station in an urban area, perhaps? Or did the Gardaí hide their car in the petrol station, and then walk a couple of kms into the countryside to the big, wide motorway just to catch you?

You... err sorry, your opinions... really are idiotic.

[dahamsta]

1. Calling someone's opinion "stupid" is the same as calling them stupid. If use has a problem with an opinion, they should refute it. If they don't, I will ban them for breaking the rule on personal abuse. If they (or you) don't like the rules, they should find another site.
2. My statement about averages should be obvious to all but a pedant.
3. The petrol station was in a rural area. I would have thought this was an obvious conclusion to draw, given the context.
4. How many cars do you see in the country without lights on?
5. You're already aware of my rule on personal attacks, so condider this your final warning: call me or anyone else "idiotic" or similar on Foot.ie again and you'll be out on your ear.

adam

[dahamsta]

I fail to see where all the animosity is coming from btw. Are you all that offended that someone might be a better driver that you? (Even though they didn't actually claim that.) Are you all 100% no-backsies convinced that "speeding kills"? No leeway, no acceptance whatsoever that accidents caused by speeding are ultimately caused by a lack of driving skill ("bad driving").

Do you always believe everything your government tells you, or just in this case? Do you think they're completely faultless when it comes to driving standards in this country? Is everything this black and white for you? Only Israel or Palestine can be at fault? The USA is never wrong? The IRA had no members that were in it for Ireland, and not the money?

What a depressing way to live life. It's no wonder you all drive like grannies. (Which I don't believe btw. Not for a second. You'll lecture here, and you'll bump past the speed limit on the way home. One day you'll get caught, and you won't tell anyone for fear of exposing yourself as the hypocrite you are.)

adam