Driving

**sligoman** · 17/07/2006, 6:57 PM

Originally Posted by dahamsta

Gareth is of the opinion that speeding is dangerous by definition. I'm of the opinion that speeding is only dangerous when not done with due care and attention. The speeding driver that pays attention to the road around him or her is far safer than some of the ninnies I see around the place, checking themselves out in the mirror, looking directly at their passengers while they gossip, hanging their children and animals out of windows and sunroofs, etc.

That's fair enough but I still think speeding is worse. In most instances of bad driving, you would still have enough time to react if danger was about to occur, whereas with speeding, you clearly have less time to react/slow down. Bad driving may cause more accidents, but in my opinion speeding makes them fatal.

**pineapple stu** · 17/07/2006, 7:13 PM

I think dahamsta's point here is that you have to combine bad driving and speeding to get 90% of fatal crashes.

You've said bad driving causes more crashes, but speeding makes them fatal. So surely reducing the number of crashes we have is a better way to improve things than reducing the likelihood that a crash is fatal? A non-crash is guaranteed not to be fatal.

Incidentally, there's a difference between speeding and going fast. You try walking away from a crash on the motorway at 60mph. Well within the speed limit, but you're still dead.

And for the record, I keep to within 5 mph or so of speed limits 95% of the time. I sometimes notice myself going a bit faster, and will make a conscious effort to slow down. I've done PHTLS medical courses and have seen enough pictures of what you look like after a 60mph car crash!

**dahamsta** · 17/07/2006, 9:16 PM

Bad drivers can't react, because they don't know how to drive. That's precisely the problem.

**John83** · 17/07/2006, 9:42 PM

Article from Diarmuid Doyle in the Tribune. [Requires registration - free trial]

A few quotes:

...No quibbles then when Michael McDowell says that "it's Irish motorists who must get the message".
When he suggests that it's "dangerous speedy, drunken and careless driving that is causing deaths, not the gardai", he has a point there too...

The problem with McDowell's statement last week was that it was designed as much to suggest that the state has no role to play in preventing road deaths as it was in allocating responsibility to dangerous and drunken drivers.

...[McDowell] feels safe being so blase on the subject of road deaths.
That may be because he suspects that deep down, the electorate is as bored with the issue of road safety as drunken drivers clearly are and that it will therefore not be an election issue that he will have to worry about.
I suspect he might be right about that too. Maybe that's the real story of a tragic week.

**Macy** · 18/07/2006, 7:27 AM

Sure the gardai are doing all they can to reduce the road deaths on dangerous stretches at dangerous times of the night, as evidenced by two lots of two, at 4pm, doing people on the N11 in Loughlinstown yesterday. For those that don't know, this is a new stretch of dual carriageway, with a seperate cyclelane and pavements set well back. I'm sure they bumped up the number of people caught to be quoted next monday after the next round of crashes...

Trevy, it is easy to blame those listed as they are doing nothing to tackle the problem. Where is the shift in focus to policing the roads at the critical times? Where are the checkpoints (random breath testing or not) on the roads out of towns and villages at 2 or 3am? People drink/drug drive and speed because they know they'll be "unlucky" to get caught. We have a situation as stands now that people speed up when they come off dual carriageways and motorways as they know there's less chance of getting caught speeding - seen it many times when heading down the country.

Where is the solution after 9 years in power to driving test waiting times when the economy is at it's richest? (Too concerned with Privatisation is the answer btw). Where is the implementation of the provisional driving laws, both on being accompanied and motorway driving?

Whats the first campaign since Gay Byrne has been involved? A anti drink driving campaign that focuses on people that are already complying with the law. The rest of his tenure has been about making excuses for Government and saying there's nothing more they can do. If you've no ideas, then resign you tool.

Simply to try and blame motorists alone is a cop out of the highest order - Would McDowell get the same support if he said there was nothing more they could do about gun crime in North Dublin, it was up to the jackeens to simply stop shooting each other? Or if he said they could do no more about rapists, just that they should stop raping people? Fookin b�llox is all it is.

**dahamsta** · 18/07/2006, 7:53 AM

The last time I was done for speeding was at 1am on the way back from Shannon, in a 50kph zone that had been created as a kneejerk because of a crash. The crash happened during the day, not at night when you can see other cars because of those "light" things they have. The Garda� hid their car under a petrol station canopy. There was zero traffic on the road.

Sure I was a danger to all around me.

adam

**Lionel Ritchie** · 18/07/2006, 9:32 AM

Inappropriate speed is a major factor in many accidents and is in itself bad driving.

But as one persons assessment of what's appropriate can differ wildly from anothers - we have the speed limit -frustrating as they sometimes are.

I empathise with many of Macys frustrations about the lack of implimentation of rules in relation to breath testing, licencing etc -but not in relation to poor infrastructure. Your driving should match the conditions you find yourself in.

As well as toughening up or even just enforcing existing rules I think there should be age related tiers as well.

In this day and age I'm not convinced there's any reason why anyone under 18 should be allowed drive on open roads AT ALL.

Once a person reaches 18 they should in my view only be allowed drive 1L or 1.1L cars til they're 22 and only 1.2L til they're 26.

**Block G Raptor** · 18/07/2006, 12:20 PM

I Agree with A lot of whats been said here re: Speeding etc. but can someone please explain what a qualified driver in the passanger seat with a provisional licence holder at the wheel is supposed to do to prevent a crash in an emergency. Also i have to say I use the M50 everyday between Blanchadstown and the M1 roundabout and I feel safer driving on it than I do on most "ordinary roads" so I think the no "L" drivers rule is a bit ridiculous TBH

**pineapple stu** · 18/07/2006, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by Block G Raptor

Can someone please explain what a qualified driver in the passanger seat with a provisional licence holder at the wheel is supposed to do to prevent a crash in an emergency.

Provisional drivers aren't used to noticing all they're supposed to notice. Like a light that's just gone red up ahead or a car which has stopped ahead of you to turn. That can easily cause a nasty crash, which the full licence driver is more likely to spot and warn the provisional driver about. They can also, I suppose, teach them their driving - improve hill starts, stalling the car, etc - things which could also lead to crashes. Not perfect, but better than letting provisional drivers out on their own.

**Block G Raptor** · 18/07/2006, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Provisional drivers aren't used to noticing all they're supposed to notice. Like a light that's just gone red up ahead or a car which has stopped ahead of you to turn. That can easily cause a nasty crash, which the full licence driver is more likely to spot and warn the provisional driver about. They can also, I suppose, teach them their driving - improve hill starts, stalling the car, etc - things which could also lead to crashes. Not perfect, but better than letting provisional drivers out on their own.

I understand that but surely 10/15 lessons with a professional Instructer would sort these issues out. IMO the Law should be at least 10 lessons with a "Pro" driving instructor before being allowed anywhere near a public road. I decided to follow this course of action when I recently got my first car/provisional license

**pineapple stu** · 18/07/2006, 1:04 PM

10 lessons certainly wouldn't sort it conclusively. That's not to say that 10 compulsory lessons (or 10 compulsory hours) isn't a bad idea, but a qualified driver in the passenger seat still does some good.

**Ringo** · 18/07/2006, 1:05 PM

Originally Posted by Block G Raptor

I Agree with A lot of whats been said here re: Speeding etc. but can someone please explain what a qualified driver in the passanger seat with a provisional licence holder at the wheel is supposed to do to prevent a crash in an emergency. Also i have to say I use the M50 everyday between Blanchadstown and the M1 roundabout and I feel safer driving on it than I do on most "ordinary roads" so I think the no "L" drivers rule is a bit ridiculous TBH

A qualified driver should be telling the learner to keep with in the limits & correcting mistakes, keep the distance etc. The ban on motorways has more to do with the 120km speed limit.

**Ringo** · 18/07/2006, 1:06 PM

http://www.aaroadwatch.ie/traffic/county.asp?aid=10

Updated: 18/07/2006 13:52:39

MAIN TRAFFIC: *Motorists are slowing down northbound from the Red Cow roundabout onto the M50 to observe youths swimming in a nearby canal. Gardai are en route.

how accidents happen on the M50 - Rubber-neckers

**hoops1** · 18/07/2006, 1:26 PM

No wonder there is so many accidents and deaths on the roads with the nonsense thats being spouted here. Speeding with care is a ridiculous statment to make in the first place.Care for who? obviously not the poor ******* that steps out in front of you. The problem is alot to do with drivers with an over inflated sense of there own driving ability taking to many risks
not driving within the limits. Ill say this if you ever cause an accident because of this stupid attitude i wouldnt admit to it because family memebers of any injured or killed would take your life.

**Block G Raptor** · 18/07/2006, 1:29 PM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

but a qualified driver in the passenger seat still does some good.

I've had me dad in the car a few times and he just distracts me and drives me mad. telling me to break when i'm breaking. watch out for this watch out for that when I've seen it before he did. he literally doesn't shut up and I end up screaming at him. I feel much much more focused and safer on my own( Note I am 28y/o and a bit more mature than most on first provisional licences and despise "Boy Racers")

**dahamsta** · 18/07/2006, 2:10 PM

Originally Posted by hoops1

obviously not the poor ******* that steps out in front of you.

On an empty motorway? By your logic, we shouldn't be driving at all. Or leaving our houses. Or getting out of bed.

It's precisely this kind of all-or-nothing attitude that causes the idiocy that's going on the Middle East at the moment.

adam

**hoops1** · 18/07/2006, 2:50 PM

Laws are Laws Obey them
Its not up to you to decide which ones dont suit you at any particular time
Your linking of statements about attitudes towards obeying the law and the middle east is both bizzare and stupid

**dahamsta** · 18/07/2006, 2:55 PM

You can express an opinion all you like on Foot.ie, but if you call me or any another poster "stupid" again, you'll be out on your ear, understood?

As to your "laws are laws" comment, are you seriously suggesting that you've never broken a law? (I'll cut you off: if you say yes, I don't believe you.)

adam

**hoops1** · 18/07/2006, 3:00 PM

If you ask a question let me answer it!
or dont ask it
Whats this a let Dahamsta hear what he wants forum

**pete** · 18/07/2006, 4:20 PM

No time to read the posts above but just one comment - everyone speeds, the only people who do not speed do not drive, anyone who says they drive but never speed is a lier as its impossible never to break the speed limit.