QuoteSo the estonia side loss 1-0 to newcastle, can derry help the irish cause tonight? i hope so but think it might be a draw, here's hope ing
Yes. We're seeded in the CL (I don't think anyone below us has points of their own), but not in the UEFA unless Shels qualify.
Also, it's nothing to do with effective regionalisation, as you put it, but rather because there's more countries in the First Round of the UEFA, so we're shoved further down the list, relatively speaking.
Last edited by pineapple stu; 25/08/2006 at 12:54 PM.
So the estonia side loss 1-0 to newcastle, can derry help the irish cause tonight? i hope so but think it might be a draw, here's hope ing
A Derry draw means they gain on their Team Co-efficient!! Like Shels versus Lille. Does a draw mean more points in a First Round Proper than in a qualifier?
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Derry +1 point.
League +1 point / 3 = +0.333.
6.465 I think.
God
Extra good news. Rabotnicki of Macedonia lost 6-2 to Basel tonight. They're the only country with remaining sides that really effect us.
Thats good news to hear. I hope Derry create history in the 2leg by going though.
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so whats our co-efficent now ?
6.165 I think.
2.833 actually. The one above is our 5 year score not counting tonight.
Another positive to consider is that both Derry and Shelbourne now have personal coefficient points to beef up their overall coefficient. Seeming as one of them will be in the UEFA next year, we should have at least one seeded team in the UEFA Cup 1st qualifying round.
Counts double.Originally Posted by Gareth
Didn't see anything to suggest that a draw's out of the question in Paris either. Whereas Lille and Prague were clearly better than Shels and Cork, that gap wasn't evident tonight.
2.833 is as far as it can go for this year I reckon. Great result for Derry tonight though. Away teams all aim for a draw away from home and win at home.
Hard to make any further progress this year but will make progress in future years easier.
Derrys team ranking gone to 3.1 now so pretty much guarantees them seeding the 1st qualifying round for next 5 years or so.
Sorry to burst your bubble JR, but as you say, away teams go for a draw. & I`ll settle for that in Paris.
I`m not even goinq to broach how away teams can go for a win at home, as the physics of it is beyond me.
A tear in the space-time continuum perhaps?
That's not been updated yet. It was last updated after the CL games on Wednesday. We'd still be in the same position, but with 6.498 as a country coefficient.
Thats 2.166 for each participating team next year. 3.166 for Derry and Shelbourne.
God
A few thoughts on these rankings:
The best ranking in the world would still have had Derry in the final qualifying round for the UEFA. The problem for EL teams will always be these matches if they have to play a top Euro team (and hopefully the first half of that was last night). Assume the next steps are seeding in CL Qualifying 1 and Uefa Qualifying 1, how often do EL teams fall at this hurdle anyway?
In fact si it not a good idea to play as many early qualifying matches as possible as these are relatively easy points or is that not how it works.
Is 27th the point at whcih an extra UEFA cup place comes into play? When does the second CL place come in (20th???).
How much can seeding be swung by a single great run, e.g. how many points would it be worth if Derry qualified and then went on to win 2/3 matches?
Finally how depressing must life be in Hungary, they have no teams left in Europe and have scored 1 point in each of the last 2 years. How the mighty have fallen.
I wonder what the odds on our clubs soon being ranked higher than our national side. At present clubs are 35th, national side is 25th in Europe.
Seeding in the early rounds means that the EL teams will get easier draws and therefore should be more likely to get two wins under their belt - we're still another few steps away from getting byes past any rounds, which is I think what you're talking about. Look at Shels in the CL. Seeding meant that they drew a NI team and beat them well, whereas Cork were handed a much trickier tie against the Cypriots. Cork and Torshavn were the only unseeded teams to go through from this round.
Swings and roundabouts - should we progress to the stage where we skip the first qualifying round, there will then probably be seesaw years of up and down when we no longer have the "easy" coefficient points to count on. As against that, we should then be (in theory) better than all the teams in the first qualifiers and should hence be expected to go through. In essence the way it works up to the group stages is that better teams come in at each round so you expect the seeded teams to get through whatever round they enter at, and then fall against better opposition in the next round.
I, as everyone will, refer you to bert's site for that one. There could also be an effect similar to what you suggest above, whereby more teams means more likelihood of an early exit for one, and points are then divided by 4.
Qualifying would require minimum another draw (1pt), maybe a bonus point for qualifying, then if you were to suggest a win and a draw - would make it another 5/3 on top of what we have - 1.66 on top of the 2.8 - it's a big improvement for a year - would give us 4.5 points for one year but overall would still only move us up 3 places on the ranking - up to about 8.2 points in 32nd place so in terms of overall seeding, not a huge difference.
Last edited by bigmac; 15/09/2006 at 9:59 AM.
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Thanks bigmac. It appears that the real problem would be if we did rise 'too' fast as we could have a few barren years.
I can see how non Old Firm Scottish teams have suffered with This. I suspect the gap between EL and all bar Celtic, Rangers and poss Hearts is not great. But beacuse the Old Firm pick up big points the other teams start at later rounds than EL teams. For this reason they win v few games. In fact I would guess EL teams have won more games in Europe over last 5 years than non Old Firm Scottish Teams.
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