Lampard @ Chelsea

[CollegeTillIDie]

Coaches frequently ask players to take on unfamiliar roles in order to put their best XI on the park. However as a wise( well Kevin Keegan was on this point anyway) former England manager once wrote in an article for Shoot when he was still a player. The point he made was signing up all Eleven best players in England would not necessarily become the best team. Egos for one but sometimes it's a blend of players that produces the best team. A combination of talents.

[The Stars]

Like Rochdale last season.The best team in the League but couldnt play together.

[gustavo]

God observation Ken. I think (could be wrong) Ancelotti introduced Pirlo to this role when he took over Milan as he wanted to include Rui Costa and Pirlo in the team.

Yeah Pirlo was an attacking midfielder in his Inter days

[Dr. Ogba]

All this talk of Lampard offering more than Makelele is complete and utter ********....can't tackle, can't pass and remains anonymous most of the game until he invariably pops up with a jammy goal....he's probably one of the most overrated and overhyped players around....

[Dr. Ogba]

All this talk of Lampard offering more than Makelele is complete and utter ********....can't tackle, can't pass and remains anonymous most of the game until he invariably pops up with a jammy goal....he's probably one of the most overrated and overhyped players around....

can't say b.ollocks? thats a load of b0llocks!

[Dodge]

I'm sure lampard can say b0llocks. he's not bad surely

[Stuttgart88]

i agree with this assessment i've read of pirlo/alonso-type players, i.e. they are deep-lying playmakers rather than "holding" players (EBhoy alluded to this i believe). makelele and gattuso aren't exactly alike but they are probably as similar as the former two are to each other.. the deeper playmakers aren't as athletic but are capable of the longer, precise pass and are the true creative metronome of their teams. makelele is fantastially fit/athletic and breaking up play with swift (often short) distribution is his forte. watching pirlo in this wc, he often gets the ball from the back four and finds totti who attempts the one-time spinning looper over the top to gila or toni, expediting play in midfield to the maximum. probably discussing things that defy classification here but interesting nonetheless.

Agree. I've long despaired at the confusion between "holding" and "playmaking". It seems the only accepted description of a playmaker these days is one who plays between midfield and the front two but I don't see why "playmaking" can't be further back. Not that I'd hold him in the same esteem as the namers mentioned above but I've always felt Graham Kavanagh is far more of a "playmaker" than "holding" player.

Agree also with eb's description of how Keane's role has evolved.

[Emmet]

I think the measure of how good a holding midfielder is is not necessarily in how well they tackle - it is more to do with their passing and overall use of the ball. Didi Hamann was an outstanding holding midfield player and Liverpool always performed much better when he was there because the other midfielders (Gerrard especially) had such confidence in his passing (he hardly ever gave the ball away) that they were more comfortable going forward to support the attacking players.

As to who will get dropped in Chelsea's midfield - I suspect that when it comes to the big crunch Champions League games you may find Lampard 'needs a rest' or is struggling with some kind of injury that necessitates him sitting it out

[PaulB]

I think Lampard is getting a bit of a hard time here. If you look at it in context. Over the past 2 saesons on a game per game basis he has been the most consistent midfielder in the premiership. He has also scored more goals than 80% of strikers in the preimership. Ok, he had a bad world cup, but so did Ronaldinho, crespo etc, give the lad a break.

Lets put it this way, if he was Irish I'd be thrilled..

[renovater]

to be fair to Lampard the lad has been over worked over the last two seasons and it showed towards the end of last season and at the world cup.
With the arrival of Ballack this will alow josie to rest lampard from game to game.
Ibelieve we will see a better lampaard as a result, one thing is for sure he won't be found wanting. His work rate is 100%.
Even in the world cup he never gave up even thou this was a tied Lamps like the boy called Ronnaldino.
By the way good players don't go bad over night,they need to recharge.

[Dodge]

Lets put it this way, if he was Irish I'd be thrilled..

In fairness I certainly think he's a terrific player (and I started this thread) BUT the pooint of it was he's not as good as the English media make out. IMO he's not one of the best 2/3 midfielders Chelsea have but by no means does that make him bad...

[Emmet]

I've always thought he was a little two-dimensional when held up against the likes of Gerrard and Ronaldinho ... but, yeah, if he was Irish I'd be very very happy alright!!

[Stuttgart88]

Pre-Mourinho I used to think Lampard was massively overrated. Understandable as he's English and the English, like ourselves, like to talk up their players' abilities. I actually saw him a few times under Ranieri. He rarely impressed me in terms of his all round game but there are certain things he did very well.

For a midfielder he's always had a very good eye for goal and he times his runs into goalscoring opportunities brilliantly. Very like Paul Scholes at his peak, or even David Platt. All 3 have (or had) a great knack of arriving late, hence unmarked. He's also an excellent deliverer of a ball. But as an all round midfielder he's no great shakes. Not bad by any means but far from world class. And yes, I'd love if he was Irish but he's only up for scrutiny because of his profile (World no. 2 etc.)

But Mourinho has really go the best out of him by having such a sound defensive midfield behind him and having such good wide options beside him. This allows Lampard to focus on his strengths and to his great credit he has thrived for Chelsea in those circumstances.

Sven never saw it like this though. He just sees him as an all round midfielder and the lack of a defined support roles for his team mates means the flaws in his game are accentuated, or more importantly, the strengths in his game aren't isolated. Myabe a couple of goals in Germany (which he could easily have got) would have changed the perception of how he played, but it wasn't just his errant shhoting. His passing was poor and frequently inaccurate or overhit. And he just didn't impose himself. Against T&T his supposed class should really have showed and it didn't. Whatever you say about ronaldinho's World Cup, I think it's inconceivable he wouldn't have done something against T&T.

I think there's a message for Staunton here: we've players like McGeady, A. Reid, Miller or Stephen Ireland who have a lot to offer creatively in the last third but might not be trusted to survive the full rigours of an international midfield scrap. If you can build the rest of the team to compensate for this while freeing up the space for this kind of player to attack maybe this'd get the best out of this type of player.

[drinkfeckarse]

Very good post Stutts, agree with that totally.