Coalition's e-vote dilemma

**Ringo** · 05/07/2006, 7:42 AM

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independe...issue_id=14303

Coalition's e-vote dilemma

Out-of-date software means €60m system is not good enough for next election

THE Government faces an acute political dilemma over the €60m e-voting system fiasco.

The system needs new software before it can be used in any future election, an independent expert group warned yesterday.

Now the Government must decide whether to spend more taxpayers' money in the hope it will finally solve the problem or ditch the entire system and cut its losses.

**Macy** · 05/07/2006, 10:33 AM

Gonna take more than new software to save evoting - public confidence is long gone. The software is the most important part of any evoting system - I've a feeling they just decided what was the best looking machine without bothering opening the bonnet to see the heap of junk engine.

Cullen has to go for ignoring all the advice and issues with the software he was in charge of choosing. It was clear it was never a "safe" system with the required checks and balances. He even signed a contract that means that the code itself couldn't be fully audited. Latest in a long line of fook ups - says a lot about FF TD's in the South East if he keeps clinging on to his cabinet position because there's no one better down there.

It's amazing the disregard FF/PD have for democracy, between e-voting and failure to address the electoral register deficiencies when they had the opportunity with the census. Actually, it probably isn't.

Not necessarily against e voting in principle, but it has to be a safe and secure system that the electorate has confidence in. It should also make transfers proportional (another failing of Cullen that he kept the existing random selection method).

**dahamsta** · 05/07/2006, 10:58 AM

Ditch the machines, ditch Cullen. Problem solved.

**Ringo** · 05/07/2006, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by dahamsta

Ditch the machines, ditch Cullen. Problem solved.

Ditch Cullen, keep the machines. Spend the extra money & get a decent program.I'd be in favour of electronic voting at some stage, as long as it can be proven to work. lets face it , the present system isn't flawless either & can be tampered with too.

**Student Mullet** · 05/07/2006, 12:24 PM

Just use the bleedin' machines. If need be, hire a goon to keep an eye on them to stop any criminal masterminds from messing with the program.

**Student Mullet** · 05/07/2006, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by Macy

It's amazing the disregard FF/PD have for democracy, between e-voting and failure to address the electoral register deficiencies when they had the opportunity with the census. Actually, it probably isn't.

You're making a very sweeping statement there. There are good reasons why the census couldn't be used for that and I'm not convinced that the electoral register is any better in FG/Lab county councils than in FF ones.

**pineapple stu** · 05/07/2006, 12:35 PM

Get the machines to print a piece of paper when you vote with your vote on it. You now have a paper trail and can re-check any close count if necessary. From what I've read about it (though that's fairly little, as I don't care one way or the other really), that seems to be the major sticking point? And also, people like staying up watching the Election Night results coming on the telly for a bit of excitement.

[off topic]I don't really care about that either really. I never wanted to do that - sit in front of the telly all evening watching the election results. I always wanted to be...to be...a LUMBERJACK![/off topic]

Sorry...

**pete** · 05/07/2006, 1:00 PM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Get the machines to print a piece of paper when you vote with your vote on it. You now have a paper trail and can re-check any close count if necessary.Sorry...

Almost every constituency has a close vote at some stage - be it to decide a seat at the end or decide who gets eleminated along the way so that would means electronic voting pointless.

I think public confidence is non-exisitent. FF should cut their loses & accept the current bad PR. Trying to implement this again cannot end in a good way politically & IMO would kill off any chance of a FF re-election.

Software escrow is relatively common & ensures client not stuck with unmaintainable system. validation of security software is relatively common too.

What Is Software Escrow?

Software escrow means deposit of the software's source code into an account held by a third party escrow agent. Escrow is typically requested by a party licensing software (the "licensee"), to ensure maintenance of the software. The software source code is released to the licensee if the licensor files for bankruptcy or otherwise fails to maintain and update the software as promised in the software license agreement.

**pineapple stu** · 05/07/2006, 1:02 PM

Originally Posted by pete

Almost every constituency has a close vote at some stage - be it to decide a seat at the end or decide who gets eleminated along the way so that would means electronic voting pointless.

It wouldn't render it pointless at all. If there's a couple of rechecks, and it turns out that electronic voting was right (as it should do; we trust far more to electricity without thinking about it), then public confidence will grow.

**pete** · 05/07/2006, 1:07 PM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

It wouldn't render it pointless at all. If there's a couple of rechecks, and it turns out that electronic voting was right (as it should do; we trust far more to electricity without thinking about it), then public confidence will grow.

How do you recheck?

Does the system maintain a copy of the votes or do individuals get a print out? Pointless to give to individuals as how do you get them all back. If the system maintains a copy then it must ensure it cannot link a vote to a person.

The conflict of electronic voting is that it must keep records that can be verified while at the same time ensuring confidentiality of the voter.

**Student Mullet** · 05/07/2006, 1:36 PM

Originally Posted by pete

How do you recheck?

Does the system maintain a copy of the votes or do individuals get a print out? Pointless to give to individuals as how do you get them all back. If the system maintains a copy then it must ensure it cannot link a vote to a person.

The conflict of electronic voting is that it must keep records that can be verified while at the same time ensuring confidentiality of the voter.

We have such a system at present so it shouldn't be difficult.

**pete** · 05/07/2006, 1:53 PM

Read the article in the IT at lunch time and its amazing that a software system the governemnt paid for is actually owrse than the paper system. Software doesn't really age so it would system like complete pile of dung when they purchased it. Also amazing that with such a sensitive piece of software that no independent verification of the R & D process used by the supplier.

**pineapple stu** · 05/07/2006, 6:24 PM

Originally Posted by pete

Pointless to give to individuals as how do you get them all back.

Duh.

Originally Posted by pete

If the system maintains a copy then it must ensure it cannot link a vote to a person.

All it does is prints a small ticket saying "Tá" or "Níl" as appropriate, and you have a paper trail which you can check for counting purposes but can't link to anyone. Perfect. It may need to be a bigger piece of paper for recording first preference, second preference, etc for elections, but the same principle can hold.

**dahamsta** · 29/06/2012, 11:09 AM

So we finally got rid of them then. Here's Phil "Asshat" Hogan talking about it:

Originally Posted by Irish Examiner

[...]

"We expected actually under the Waste Management Act to have to pay in order to dispose of those machines," he said.

"So we are very fortunate to at least have ended up on the plus side."

[...]

I'm pretty sure we didn't. By my calculations it's a net negative of €54,929,724. I think that's almost certainly a minus. D1ckhead.