QuoteYup, just mentioned them cos the only games we know of yet. Even if RTE had the rights i be amazed if even have the million odd viewership for Spain game would watch Russia in October.Originally posted by Schumi
The deal is for 4 years.
The deal is for 4 years.
We're not arrogant, we're just better.
Yup, just mentioned them cos the only games we know of yet. Even if RTE had the rights i be amazed if even have the million odd viewership for Spain game would watch Russia in October.Originally posted by Schumi
The deal is for 4 years.
This is addressed to Irish football fans who are opposed to the Sky deal. If you support the Sky deal, then I respect your opinion, and this message is not an attempt to change your mind.
If you oppose the Sky deal, be aware that the Government can still list these games for protection, and let the FAI and Sky challenge that decision if they want. I will post details later. Some other points:
(1) I am drafting an initial letter to politicians, the European Commission, the FAI and their affiliated bodies and sponsors, and Sky. Please let me know if there are any specific points you would like included. In particular, what are your feelings about the type of compromises that are being floated (village square type, screenings, one free game to start off with !!! etc.) I will circulate a final draft of the letter as soon as I can, and sign it as from anybody who wants their name included.
(2) I and others are planning a meeting soon (probably in Dublin) to discuss what to do next. If you would like to attend, please email me at michael@happying.com. We will be discussing relatively immediate public action. Some suggestions are leaflets and a petition in town centres and at Eircom League games, plus pickets of the FAI and Eircom. Would you be happy to take part in any of these activities, or have you any other suggestions?
As I said, this is addressed to Irish football fans who are opposed to the Sky deal. If you support the Sky deal, then I respect your opinion, and this message is not an attempt to change your mind.
Michael Nugent
I'm not slagging you but whats your connection to irish football?.....i'm just curious.
Hi Pete,
Sorry, I suppose I should have introduced myself. I wrote an article for the Herald on Monday looking for support for a campaign against this deal. I started with what is effectively the answer to your question, so here are the first few paragraphs from the article...
Sky boss Rupert Murdoch once made the notorious boast: "We will use sport as the battering ram for pay television".
I'm a longtime fan feeling the blunt end of that battering ram. I’ve followed Bohs, Leeds and Ireland since the 1970s. I spent most weekends of my youth at Dalymount when it seemed a citadel, Milltown before it became a carpark, Tolka when its seating was a muck embankment, and being chased out of Oriel Park by people who were probably less ferocious than they seemed at the time.
In those more rough 'n' ready times I watched all of Ireland’s home ties, including friendly and reserve games, from the Dalymount Shed. Then we started winning (okay, mostly drawing) under the Charlton regime and, like thousands of other lifelong fans without FAI or corporate connections, I usually couldn’t get a ticket for Lansdowne.
An hour before the kick-off of one international, a businessman offered me one of “four tickets back in the office that we’re not using”. I went and sat beside three empty seats, getting angrier by the minute. After that I started watching our games at home on the telly.
Now the FAI tell me I cannot even do that, unless I do my bit to shove Rupert's battering ram. Appropriately, the FAI decided this at the very same meeting as they set up an investigation into how they managed to dispense with the services of their only world-class player in the run-up to Korea and Japan.
Well, this time they’ve gone too far. The FAI is not a private business, free to take whatever decision makes most money. It is the repositary of all of our football memories and dreams, as fans and Irish citizens of all ages.
It is about Jackie Carey captaining both Ireland and Northern Ireland with distinction, it's about a teenage Johnny Giles scoring a stunner against Sweden, it's about Don Givens’ hat-trick against Russia in 1974, about Packie Bonnar’s penalty save in Italy, and Damian Duff’s cheeky bow to the crowd in Japan. It is our game, not the FAI’s.
So forget the rows between the FAI and RTE over who offered what and when. Our money keeps both of them in existence. They should both be working together to best serve all of our interests. Not forcing children and OAPs to subscribe to Sky or endure the scrum in the pub...
Michael Nugent
Fair enough. Just making sure you not an ole ole-er
I hate Sky and Rupert Murdoch like the rest but, to be honest, if even a million of that 7.5 comes into the eircom League I'll see it as a good deal.
A million is better than nothing.
Yeah, I agree that this deal will be very good for Irish football if the money is used properley i.e. a good slice of the money is put into the eircom league, schoolboys football etc. and not into the pockets of the FAI bigwigs.
Unfortunately the media will probably try to get the FAI yto waste the cash on chartered flights for the international team & the like.
The media always seem to forget when they choose that the FAI has amoung other things a lot of underage international teams to pay for which no other irish sports organisation would even come close to supporting.
I agree with that, 1 million is definately better than nothing. Also what I don't understand is the people who are against the deal are the same people critising the FAI about their lack of professionalism. Professionalism requires money! The English FA for years have signed up with SKY and Why? Well obviously its about money and they need money to reinvest in the game just like the FAI are doing.
On Morning Ireland a representative of the EU Commission has confirmed that, from the Commission's perspective, the Irish home matches and the FAI Cup semis and final must be shown to fans on free tv, despite the FAI contract with Sky, once the Irish Government lists them for protection.
Here's a summary of an article I wrote for yesterday's Herald explaining the law concerned.
TELEVISION WITHOUT FRONTIERS
The FAI Sky row has highlighted a law that our Government has shamefully failed to enforce, in the face of pressure from vested interests in the FAI, IRFU and GAA. Communications Minister Dermot Ahern has now vowed to start listing sports events that we can see, as of right, on free television.
But it is not too late to save the Irish home soccer matches. As Robbie Keane showed against Germany, we should keep fighting until the final whistle.
To do this, we must become as familiar with this match-saving EU law as we should already be with the offside rule. Government Ministers are already straying yards offside with misleading statements about what they can and can’t do. Here are the facts that we should be flagging to them.
Sport is part of our shared culture, and European law recognises this. A 1997 Directive known as “Television without Frontiers” allows EU citizens to view sporting events of national importance without having to pay. To enforce this, each Government draws up a list of protected events.
Germany, Italy and the UK protect the Olympic Games. The UK protects Wimbledon, the Grand National, and the Rugby League and World Cup finals. Italy protects the Tour of Italy cycling competition, the Formula 1 Italian Grand Prix and (somewhat unusually) the San Remo Italian music festival.
Football is by far the most protected sport. Germany and Italy have listed all of their countries’ qualifying games for the European Championships and World Cup, plus the finals of each. Also protected are the English and Scottish FA Cup finals, the German FA Cup semis and final, and European semis or finals with German club sides.
How exactly are the events protected? They must be shown on a station (or group of stations) that can be seen free-to-air to the vast majority of the population. If a broadcaster who cannot do this buys the rights, they can still show the event. But they must also sell the rights to a qualifying broadcaster. If there is a dispute, the High Court can be asked to set a fair market rate.
This Directive entered Irish law with the Broadcasting (Major Events Television Coverage) Act of 1999. Since then, no events have yet been designated here. Why?
Here are the first two men offside. Sports Minister John O’Donoghue has suggested that the listing must be interpreted narrowly. And Taoiseach Bertie Ahern has said that, "even if there were legislation governing the area, it would not allow entire tournaments to be designated free-to-air". This is all true, but misleading. You may not be able to list, say, the entire World Cup. But you can list, collectively, all home and away international football matches involving your own country.
And here’s the third man offside. Dermot Ahern has said that listing events was difficult because the sports bodies would not agree. But they don’t have to agree. They just have to be consulted. And that has already been done. If they had to agree, that would defeat the whole purpose of the law. In fact, the law explicitly states that, “the failure of the organiser or a broadcaster to respond to the Minister’s efforts to consult shall not preclude the making of an order.”
They could, of course, like anybody else, take a Constitutional challenge against the law itself. And this threat may well have frightened the Government into not listing any events so far. But public reaction to the FAI deal has now spurred Dermot Ahern into more urgent action. Despite the Sky contract, we must not let him ignore the home football matches. The FAI and Sky may have scored a very dodgy ‘Hand-of-Murdoch’ goal, but there is still time for the Government to equalize.
Our listing law is silent about contracts that are signed after the law came into effect, but before the event concerned was listed. In the UK the cut-off date is when the Government started to consult with the bodies concerned about a possible listing (which happened here well before the FAI Sky deal). After that, the parties to a contract are assumed to know that they are dealing with an event that may end up being listed.
Whatever the eventual outcome, the Government should now list these games for protection, and let the FAI and Sky challenge that decision if they want to. This would also open up the way for individual Irish citizens to make direct complaints to the European Commission. The Irish Government, seemingly unclear on the rules, is facing an open goal. They should put the ball in the net and let the referee decide what to do.
This Directive entered Irish law with the Broadcasting (Major Events Television Coverage) Act of 1999. Since then, no events have yet been designated here. Why?
Why? Brown envelopes. Of course you can't write that in the newspaper.
Therefore this the the governments fault not the FAI?
Of course your typical media types wouldn't even educate themselves to this before mouthing off.
The FAI and Sky both knew well that they were negotiating a deal that came under this law.
It's no surprise they did the deal in secret.
They knew that if anybody found out (even the FAI's own television committee) then somebody would have got the government to list the games before the contract was signed.
They didn't predict that the Government could or would act against them if they signed the deal and presented it as a fait accompli.
Michael Nugent
This whole issue bothers me, I think it's another case of all that is bad in Ireland. Like the Roy Keane saga, things have to be dragged through the mud over and over again.
The first point I have to make is that I am disgusted by RTE's lack of objectivity on their news programs in particular.
Secondly, I 'd like to ask anyone who thinks the FAI have acted wrongly here, would they suggest the FAI should settle for a deal worth about 6 million less?
I'm very worried that if the government do stick their noses in and overturn this contract that the FAI will basically have no assets, if they are not allowed to sell their rights to the highest bidder.
One last point I'd like to make is on the words that are constantly mentioned along the lines of "internationals should remain on free-TV", if this is the case doesn't it leave only TV3 in the running since everyone has to pay their license fee, again not an option like Sky Sports, but a law punishable by a jail sentence.
Yeah, they seem to be hoping to sway the public into putting pressure on the government to enact this law. They hope that they will then get the rights for a pittence.Originally posted by tomsoc
I am disgusted by RTE's lack of objectivity on their news programs in particular.
This Michael Nugent fella was on the radio there. Apparently he wants the government to hold back the money promised to the FAI and hence the clubs.
I've had a reasoned debate on another well known msg board but he well out of order asking for that.Originally posted by Neil
This Michael Nugent fella was on the radio there. Apparently he wants the government to hold back the money promised to the FAI and hence the clubs.
If there wasn't a government bias against the FAI for years i'd agree with him but by essentailly blocking them from selling the tv rights to their most in demand product at market price the government are going too far!
Hi Neil,
What station did you hear that on, and what time, as I'd like to check up on it. You can email me privately if you wish - michael@happying.com.
For the record, we did not say that we wanted the Government to hold back the money. In fact, I repeatedly said - on that very issue as well as others - that any decisions about things like that would have to wait until we had a wider mandate from a larger number of fans.
The only two things that Irish Fans United have come together on to date are:
(1) opposition to the Sky deal and
(2) the neeed to set up a representative and accountable body for ALL Irish football fans, with a voice in the formal decision-making process of Irish football.
Michael Nugent
Just to clarify further, this is from our press release yesterday:
"It is important that the domestic game is protected. The FAI Cup final should be listed, the FAI should carry out the development plan launched last year, and people who watch Irish internationals should consider watching domestic league football as well."
Michael Nugent
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