eL Clubs and Tax Breaks

[passerrby]

my guess is that EL clubs are not flavour of the month with the revenue and until we get our houses in order they will not do us any favours, we should not be surprised.

[A face]

It's a mite easier to run your financial affairs properly when government throws money at you. This is the same circular argument made by those who consider that the GAA is supernaturally gifted when it comes to financial management and fund-raising prowess, as opposed simply to being well-in.

Isn't that the truth .... infact if the GAA didn't have the house in order then its would be fairly worrying to say the least.

[pete]

Its easy to say that Horse & Dog Racing is run properly when its has 50-80m subsidy every single year & that i think does not even include the tax missed because of the stud farms.

Take horse racing as an example:
- The state builds facilities (this would be stadiums in the eL)
- The state subsidies prize money (this would be like paying for eL player wages)
- Stud farms are tax free (this could like academies or VAT free bars or something)

The fact is horse racing is a small sport not taken seriously by most countries & the only thing is does is allow millionaires make more profits and encourage gambling.

Imagine what kind of facilities the IRFU, GAA, FAI & Olympic sports would have in 10 years if the state invested 1 billion up to 2016?

If tax breaks are good enough for artists then its good enough for sport people. Even capping the tax break at the first 50-100k would make a huge difference.

The eL can not expect special treatment but professional sports such as Rugby not in great shape either. The IRFU only made 800k surplus this year is possibly its best ever year at international & provincial level.

[A face]

The eL can not expect special treatment but professional sports such as Rugby not in great shape either. The IRFU only made 800k surplus this year is possibly its best ever year at international & provincial level.

Also, just to answer that one ...

I'd presume his answer would possibly be the part of his post where he states that the clubs would simply hand over any savings to the players in increased salarys.

That is only a small problem now in fairness ... and even so, if the money was given to players, wouldn't it attract more players here ?? Hardly an obstacle now is it, its like we are looking for problems with it.

[higgins]

Im with northside hoop

Clubs will pay the players basically every single spare cent they have. If they had 50K a week coming in they would find the players to spend that 50K.

Clubs should be forced to upgrade their grounds in order to compete at the top level.

Only by rules can you get most clubs to spend their money on other things outside players wages.

[A face]

Im with northside hoop

Clubs will pay the players basically every single spare cent they have. If they had 50K a week coming in they would find the players to spend that 50K.

So ?? What does that have to do with a tax break ?? You're making no sense?

From what i gather, you are saying that some clubs with spend 100% on players wages .... how does that impact on whether the league so get tax breaks or not .... 100% will always be 100% no matter what the figure ???

Clubs should be forced to upgrade their grounds in order to compete at the top level.

I know its completely off on a tangent and has nothing to do with tax breaks but thats a valid point. I heard somewhere a suggested rule of clubs only spending 65% of their income on players ... that would go someway to addressing your issue.

Only by rules can you get most clubs to spend their money on other things outside players wages.

Agreed.

N E Way ..... back on topic !!

[higgins]

So ?? What does that have to do with a tax break ?? You're making no sense?

From what i gather, you are saying that some clubs with spend 100% on players wages .... how does that impact on whether the league so get tax breaks or not .... 100% will always be 100% no matter what the figure ???

I know its completely off on a tangent and has nothing to do with tax breaks but thats a valid point. I heard somewhere a suggested rule of clubs only spending 65% of their income on players ... that would go someway to addressing your issue.

I am making sense
I always make sense

A tax break would mean EL Club owe less money to the Tax Man and therefore the debt would build up at a slower pace. The money saved (assuming clubs keep up their payments) would more than likely go into the kitty for the manager to spend on players.

If this is what you mean and are happy with then ok but I would like the money saved through a tax break not to go towards higher wages.

EL Clubs are focused on players, its players players players and they wont spend a cent they dont have to. Grounds are maintained only because they are required to now by the FAI. Very little seems to happen at most EL grounds that wasnt forced upon them or wasnt from a grant. Its an endless chase for the next best player, over and over and over again. There is always someone better out there that the manager wants and the extra few thousand would go on that player and force wages higher.

Very little (if anything) of the day to day income of clubs gets put into anything other than players wages.

We do need to eventually spend money to bring in a better quality player but not before every club has their house in order. Playing in a dump week in week out or renting grounds while splashing out money on big squads is madness. You need to spend money behind the scenes to allow your club grow and increase income levels.

A tax break wouldnt do me you or the next fan any favours. It would probably do the few 100 players a favour. Also players can claim back tax for their 10 highest paid years if they play in Ireland. Thats a big enough tax break for them I think! I'd love to claim back tax for 10 years when I was 34 or 35...

As for the 65% rule, thats part of the new proposal put forward by the FAI. Has been covered in other threads but its going to be very hard to work it. Until ALL players in this league receive all of their money by the proper means and everything is documented clubs can lie through their teeth on the 65% rule.

[A face]

Exactly.

So why bother having the government give tax breaks when it won't help the clubs but will help greedy players.

How about trying to get other players .... who are not greedy but actually worth more ..... to bring more people through the gates ...... to get more money ..... to be able to by even better players ..... and see better standard of football ..... to get even more people through the gates ...... getting more money ..... to buy better players !!

Man .... come off it now in all fairness !!

I am making sense
I always make sense

A tax break would mean EL Club owe less money to the Tax Man and therefore the debt would build up at a slower pace. The money saved (assuming clubs keep up their payments) would more than likely go into the kitty for the manager to spend on players.

If this is what you mean and are happy with then ok but I would like the money saved through a tax break not to go towards higher wages.

EL Clubs are focused on players, its players players players and they wont spend a cent they dont have to. Grounds are maintained only because they are required to now by the FAI. Very little seems to happen at most EL grounds that wasnt forced upon them or wasnt from a grant. Its an endless chase for the next best player, over and over and over again. There is always someone better out there that the manager wants and the extra few thousand would go on that player and force wages higher.

Very little (if anything) of the day to day income of clubs gets put into anything other than players wages.

We do need to eventually spend money to bring in a better quality player but not before every club has their house in order. Playing in a dump week in week out or renting grounds while splashing out money on big squads is madness. You need to spend money behind the scenes to allow your club grow and increase income levels.

A tax break wouldnt do me you or the next fan any favours. It would probably do the few 100 players a favour. Also players can claim back tax for their 10 highest paid years if they play in Ireland. Thats a big enough tax break for them I think! I'd love to claim back tax for 10 years when I was 34 or 35...

As for the 65% rule, thats part of the new proposal put forward by the FAI. Has been covered in other threads but its going to be very hard to work it. Until ALL players in this league receive all of their money by the proper means and everything is documented clubs can lie through their teeth on the 65% rule.

I cant actually believe i am hearing this ??

Look ... with or without a tax break you have the problem you are outlining above .... i'd suggest you try and actually resolve that BEFORE you condemn a tax break.

Fair enough 65% rule might have problems but i dont see how a tax break has anything to do with that. Maybe you should try and think of them as two seperate issues, it might work out better for you.

[Stuttgart88]

Domestic footballers are far more deserving of tax breaks than the likes of Damon Hill who lived (lives?) in Killiney for tax purposes.

In order to attract capital investment, potential investors should be able to make the investment from their pre-tax income. That'd be a start.

Maybe also allowing revenue to be tax exempt if reinvested. And so on.

[paudie]

One stick the EL/FAI should use to beat the government with is the huge funding given to build/renovate new dog and horse tracks.

The eL can justifiably say that, for example, Cork City are competing for customers with:

1. the excellent facilities at the brand new, paid for by the government(100% probably) Cork dog track

2. The renovated Mallow race track paid for by government (100% probably)

The fact that these sports are run by state boards means the state is creating an extremely unlevel (is that a word?) playing field.

I think lobbying for tax breaks going to players are a waste of time to be honest. Funding for capital works is what the EL should aim for.

[pete]

Attendances do not rise because of better facilities. The only proven way of increasing club attendances is a winning team. I haven't been to Kilkenny but they seem to have decent ground but poor team & look at their attendances.

IMO the state should be part funding municipal stadiums in the major population centres as our investment in sport is pitiful by all international standards.

Developers get massive tax breaks (tax free rent for 10 years set against the building costs) for building apartments in some parts of our cities (many are not exactly deprieved areas) & same for car parks (at the same time preaching the evils of cars yet feck all tax breaks for building a stand with say bar concession.

[passerrby]

If there was a tax amesty tomorrow and all clubs were given a clean bill of health would we be back in this same situation in a number of years time, proberly because some clubs refuse to accept the level we are at and that i fear is why the revenue as ****ed of with some of our clubs and refuse to help us.
other sports have one distinct advantage ,most politicians support rugger or the gaa, both have good photo ops, nobody wants to be photographed next to our lot
bloody hell im going to cry

[A face]

nobody wants to be photographed next to our lot

Are they ever asked though ??

That is half of the problem, they aren't even being asked.

[thomas]

A Face it has everything to do with tax breaks.

The clubs deduct money from a players salary on his behalf to pay that players tax obligations. A tax break would simply mean the players would not have that money deducted from their pay.

[A face]

A Face it has everything to do with tax breaks.

The clubs deduct money from a players salary on his behalf to pay that players tax obligations. A tax break would simply mean the players would not have that money deducted from their pay.

Well, depending on the tax break ..... but yeah, i know what you mean.

So?? ...... yeah, players would earn more money !!

What is wrong with that .... if players can earn more money, we'll attract better players, even possibly keep a few players here aswell. What is wrong with that? A tax break on players wages would mean the wages would go further, this would be a good thing for this league imo. If you are saying it isn't ..... then that a whole other topic to be honest and i think you shouldn't be trying to confuse the two issues.

I mean if you are arguing with the fact that the clubs could pay players more, as a result of not having to pay tax then cut it short here fella. Football is a professional sport .... if you dont want to pay players then support GAA. You need to ask yourself what you actually want to be honest.

Also, if your opinion is that a tax break on wages is not good, and you are thinking of something else, then spit it out ... let us know.


(Bare in mind, my motive for starting this thread was to see if there was a way to improve the leagues situation.)

If they want taxs breaks they can offset it against their mortgage, their pension like the rest of us.

Who is to say they are not doing that already ?? And this doesn't add to the debate of tax breaks for eL

they get their best 5 years back at the end of their careers on top of that.

All professional sports people get that !! ....... every single one of them, not just eL players .... again .... has no impact on the debate on tax breaks for eL.

Cutting to the chase, if we mean government funding, obviously EUR80m a year would go a long way but get over yourselves, its not going to happen in the short term, and if delaney or his successor continue to be balls less then donet expect it any time in the next 10 years.

Its not governemnt funding i am on about, its tax breaks

What divine right does a footballer have to pay less tax on their salary?

If this is what you are contesting then say it .... if you dont agree with players paying less tax then say it. That way we'd know how you feel about eL players getting tax breaks. But if you dont agree, give us your reasons/motive.

[Block G Raptor]

We pay 17.5% on gate receipts straight to HM Customs and Revenue.


Barstewards!!!!!

Thats It I'm Never setting foot the Brandywell again............or at least until there is a united Ireland. do you reckon they can get one by october?

[thomas]

Well, depending on the tax break ..... but yeah, i know what you mean.

So?? ...... yeah, players would earn more money !!

What is wrong with that .... if players can earn more money, we'll attract better players, even possibly keep a few players here aswell. What is wrong with that? A tax break on players wages would mean the wages would go further, this would be a good thing for this league imo. If you are saying it isn't ..... then that a whole other topic to be honest and i think you shouldn't be trying to confuse the two issues.

I mean if you are arguing with the fact that the clubs could pay players more, as a result of not having to pay tax then cut it short here fella. Football is a professional sport .... if you dont want to pay players then support GAA. You need to ask yourself what you actually want to be honest.

Also, if your opinion is that a tax break on wages is not good, and you are thinking of something else, then spit it out ... let us know.


(Bare in mind, my motive for starting this thread was to see if there was a way to improve the leagues situation.)




Who is to say they are not doing that already ?? And this doesn't add to the debate of tax breaks for eL



All professional sports people get that !! ....... every single one of them, not just eL players .... again .... has no impact on the debate on tax breaks for eL.



Its not governemnt funding i am on about, its tax breaks



If this is what you are contesting then say it .... if you dont agree with players paying less tax then say it. That way we'd know how you feel about eL players getting tax breaks. But if you dont agree, give us your reasons/motive.

Take a chill pill ffs.

[A face]

Take a chill pill ffs.

Ahh .... i was just discussing it man, i didn't think you'd get upset over it. If you thought i was getting personal with you there i wasn't. I was merely arguing the point, never intended attack you at all, just the point .... y'know, debate it.

Sorry about that fella !!

[Poor Student]

Face, your usage of the old question mark can be a bit threatning. Know what I mean!!?????????

[A face]

Face, your usage of the old question mark can be a bit threatning. Know what I mean!!?????????

D'oh ... force of habit !!