Womens Senior Challenge Cup

**Countryripple** · 07/12/2006, 10:46 AM

You are not getting what we mean.

**johnmayo** · 07/12/2006, 10:51 AM

We ???

I think it is mainly you contributing on this side of the debate

**rasper** · 07/12/2006, 1:04 PM

this is a quote from fai web site "The Mayo League will contest the Womens’ FAI Cup final with the cup specialists UCD at Richmond Park on Saturday. The winners will represent Ireland in the UEFA Champions’ League."
hope this helps. the rules do not state that it has to be a club but the winners or runners up of the national cup or nation league as mayo have already won the inter county league cup and the national irish cup they should represent ireland be it in ireland or somewhere in europe

**Breifne** · 07/12/2006, 1:45 PM

Originally Posted by Henry14

Ok I dont know if it's just me that thinks this but surely UCD could be seen as more of a representive side I know they are a college team but they have a pick from all over the country and mayo only have a county to pick from so surely it would be fair for them to europe if UCD were eligilble before.

Henry, I think you have completly misunderstood what the whole argument is about.

Firstly let me begin by saying that Mayo won the cup because the WFAI allowed them to enter, and then they won all their games. Thats the facts.
Nothing can change that. But trying to say that UCD is a representative team is rubbish. UCD have 18 players, who are registered with the DWSL and have not played for any other team this season (outside of college football). The Mayo league, as in gaelic football is comprised of the best players from each of the clubs who take part in the mayo league. This is not the same thing.

As disappointing as it was to lose the cup final last saturday, i would like to congratulate Mayo on what will undoubtedly raise the profile of the game in what has been a hugely gaelic football dominated area.

The only question about the UEFA championships i would like answered is will Cora Staunton, Yvonne Byrne (the match winner in my book), Emma Mullin, Triona McNicholas and the other GAA players take ten days out during the height of the GAA Season to travel to play in UEFA competition. And if Mayo are involved in the latter stages of the Gaelic will they be allow to play soccer.

**swinfordfc** · 07/12/2006, 3:55 PM

Originally Posted by Breifne

Henry, I think you have completly misunderstood what the whole argument is about.

Firstly let me begin by saying that Mayo won the cup because the WFAI allowed them to enter, and then they won all their games. Thats the facts.
Nothing can change that. But trying to say that UCD is a representative team is rubbish. UCD have 18 players, who are registered with the DWSL and have not played for any other team this season (outside of college football). The Mayo league, as in gaelic football is comprised of the best players from each of the clubs who take part in the mayo league. This is not the same thing.

As disappointing as it was to lose the cup final last saturday, i would like to congratulate Mayo on what will undoubtedly raise the profile of the game in what has been a hugely gaelic football dominated area.

The only question about the UEFA championships i would like answered is will Cora Staunton, Yvonne Byrne (the match winner in my book), Emma Mullin, Triona McNicholas and the other GAA players take ten days out during the height of the GAA Season to travel to play in UEFA competition. And if Mayo are involved in the latter stages of the Gaelic will they be allow to play soccer.

Do you think that these girls will miss out on this - not a chance. all these girls will go over there to perform - i put my house on it now

**rasper** · 07/12/2006, 6:54 PM

is it a crime to play soccer and gaelic outside mayo staunton, byrne, mullin and mcnicholas has played club soccer for many years and would be known inside mayo and the wfai as very good soccer players so are they soccer players playing gaelic or gaelic players playing soccer we might leave that to the mayo management to sort out i am sure as "swinford fc" said they would like to perform for ireland in this uefa competition if not mayo had many more players inside mayo that will.mayo had lots of subs in dublin that would love to have the chance to play. is three subs enough to be let use in any match why not five or six?????

**Countryripple** · 08/12/2006, 9:55 AM

Correct Cityman and Breifne. At least there are a few of us out there who seem to understand what the hell a representative team is composed of and how this is against the make up of a club competition, be it national or european!

The fact that 90% of people writing on this forum do not seem to understand this, or simply just refuse to acknowledge this complete disregard for national and european competition rules, just goes to show why the game in this country is such a shambles. This washing over rules and skewing them to suit whatever mess has been made stems from those at the top, the WFAI. Sadly, this has filtered down through every level throughout the country.

I just want to play like any other person. And the only option I have is to play to whatever system the WFAI set out. I have never played an entire season without seeing players and clubs screwed over in a situation where they have only questioned the non upholding of thier leagues own rules by an authoritive body, be it their own league or the WFAI.

Now our national body are going to make this evident to the whole of Europe when they send a representative team into an international club competition.

How many of the clubs from the other involved countries are going to feel they have been done over when they have to play this team?

**johnmayo** · 08/12/2006, 11:45 AM

A couple of points:

Ok suppose the Mayo League last year decided that a representive team was unfair and that they world form a proper team to compete for the WFAI Senior Cup.

what League would they have played in? the MWFL would not be suitable and would unfair to the teams there, so that would not be an option.

would you allow them into the DWSL? would the Dublin clubs look forward to having to travel to Mayo maybe 2/ 3 times a season. Mayo if they had to if there were no other option would do it but would that be fair to the girls from Belmullet to travel 4 hours to fulfill a league fixture in Peamount or Templelogue

Representive teams in international competitions have occured in other sports, Munster, Leinster in Heinkein Cup Rugby anyone?

All the Provinical players are nominally signed with a AIL club, evidence below

Cameron Jowitt- a Kiwi signed with Lansdowne
http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/members/...D=37&docID=683

Just suppose for example UCD have problem with this would they say the same to Kevin McLaughlin UCD wing All 6ft 4 of him
http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/members/...D=37&docID=147

http://www.ucdrugby.com/teams/default.asp

The model that IRFU have used have brought great success and have developed the game and support in Ireland.

the WFAI are really only following the same model and if they can produce the same results would anyone on this forum complain (or feel that they are screwed over)

**Pedro m** · 08/12/2006, 10:03 PM

Personnally i find the way this thread has developed quite ironic.Almost a UCD versus "The representative Team".Its not so long (and maybe still)that there was a deep hatred/jealousy of UCD for the way they could walk up to someone after a game and "invite" them to UCD with the golden handshake of a scholarship.Many teams in the DWSL openly detested this and saw it as an unfair advantage.Now we have the very same UCD claiming Mayo may not have GAA players available for the UEFA Cup!Would UCD step aside if the UEFA cup clashed with exams.The WFAI had no choice but to allow representative sides or call the WFAI cup a 2nd DWSL cup.Mayo winning will have far reaching results into the growth of Womens soccer outside leinster.Is it not hte case that any team can use guests in the UEFA Cup ?
Mayo won and should represent the WFAI next year end of ..............
BTW its also not inconceivable that Mayo play in the DWSL,Monaghon,Benfica,Dundalks etc alll do and while not as far as Mayo it is the closest to a national laegue at the moment!

**Jaws!** · 09/12/2006, 6:01 PM

Originally Posted by Pedro m

BTW its also not inconceivable that Mayo play in the DWSL,Monaghon,Benfica,Dundalks etc alll do and while not as far as Mayo it is the closest to a national laegue at the moment!

I beg to differ; the closest thing to a national league at the moment is actually the WSCAI with well over 30 teams competing in a league structure with two national divisions and three regional divisions. Not everyone may be aware of this but over half the players on the pitch last saturday evening also play college soccer. While it's an exclusive league in that you have to be in college to play, it certainly is national in the geographical sense, with teams participating from Letterkenny to Waterford. While the DWSL certainly seems to be expanding to include larger clubs from Leinster, it is still primarily a Dublin league, not a national one.

**Wexford Rules** · 09/12/2006, 6:37 PM

While it is great to see such interest in this debate, it is almost a certainty at this point that a National League will be up and running by 2008 which should solve a lot of the issues currently being discussed, one being that the national league winners and not the cup winners will qualify to represent us in Europe. A national league is way overdue but is now one of the main points of the development plan for womens soccer and is top of that agenda, it seems the only hold up is ensuring that the proper structures are put in place to make it a success

**CollegeTillIDie** · 09/12/2006, 9:06 PM

Ok people have had a pop at the WFAI for allowing representative sides into the Cup. People are entitled to criticize what they disagree with, but in order to level a full assessment of the situation prior to issuing a criticism , one has to know the full facts. I would wager that many of the critics are unaware of the background to how this decision was arrived at.

In 2003 the decision was made to allow League representative sides into the WFAI Senior Cup for one simple reason. The competition was dying on it's feet. Owing to hidings administered to clubs from outside the DWSL by clubs from within it in 2002 and previous years, Shiven Rovers were walloped on their own patch and Bunclody likewise, (to name but two) so clubs, especially those West of the Shannon, were reluctant to enter the competition. At the start of 2003 when soundings were taken only 7 teams indicated they would be interested in participating in the competition.

When you take into account this 7 included , 2 teams who were Intermediate Cup finalists in 2002 and were mandatorily participating , this meant only 5 all of whom were members of the DWSL Premier Division.

So something had to be done. By permitting Representative teams from entering it was possible that by fielding all the best players in a region in a team that the likelyhood of being embarrassed in the competition by stronger clubs from Dublin would be reduced. And it was an automatic success. No team were beaten by more than 7 goals in the 2003 competition and so it carried on to last season when Mayo League beat UCD and reached the semi-finals and Cork League were unlucky to lose to eventual winners Dundalk.

This year Mayo reached the final and the rest is history.

Now I know the current rules of the Women's UEFA Cup appear to prohibit MAYO from participating in the competition next season but who knows what changes may be made in the interim.

I don't think the WFAI had much option except to allow Representative teams enter the Cup at the time. By the same token I believe club football in the Provinces is a lot stronger than it was 5 years ago and perhaps club sides from those Leagues could consider entering off their own bat again.

The comments about Mayo GAA players being allowed to play soccer during the height of the Championship is a real concern.
In some counties and I am willing to name and shame them, Kildare and Dublin spring to mind, GAA players are PREVENTED from playing soccer once they reach the county panel.
One season you had the farcical situation of Dublin's reserve goalkeeper being prevented from playing soccer for Rathfarnham United ,in a season where she didn't feature for a single minute in the entire Championship for the Dubs. All playing soccer was going to do was MAKE HER A BETTER GOALKEEPER!

**olegunnar** · 11/12/2006, 12:13 AM

Hi all, great debate going on here. I think people are underestimating "country ripple" a bit. I don't think for a second its a sour grapes post,so to speak.

I heard a great point for country ripple today, i don't think im wrong. Dr. Crokes won Munster Senior Football Championship today beating Waterford champs. They did not win the Kerry Championship though. South Kerry did. However, South Kerry could not enter the All Ireland Club Championship, as they are not a club, only a representative side allowed compete in the Kerry Championship.

See a comparison here? Lets call South Kerry an equivalent to the Mayo League, and all i want to do is strengthen the original point by ripple that the interesting part is that Mayo might not be allowed into UEFA Club competition, as they are not an Actual Club.

**johnmayo** · 11/12/2006, 8:37 AM

Yet East Kerry won the first All Ireland Club Championship in 1970-71

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-Ire...l_Championship

**Countryripple** · 11/12/2006, 10:33 AM

Thank you!!! At last someone is understanding plain english!!! CTID, you have told me time and time again the whys and wherefores of the representative stuff arising. Believe me, I am not ill informed, nor do I not know all the facts. You seem to think you are the only person on here who knows the in's and out's of all these decisions in womens football. But you are not.

The players and teams obviously existed throughout the county as they were already playing (for clubs) in their respective leagues. If there were enough players playing for these teams that they could select their elite to make a representative team, why could they not just form a new club?

Also, when the competition was in such dire straights in 2003, why didnt the WFAI get off their behind and do something about intising teams into the competition? Any mens league or cup in this country have a great incentives at the finish line. Not only would the team get their deserved medals/trophys etc, but they would also get a prize. Some are alot bigger than others mind, in some cases, teams win trips abroad to take part in other competitons. In other cases, it is as simple as giving the winning team a set of new jerseys for all their hard work. I wonder how hard it would have been for those full time employees withing our association and our various leagues (because there definately are some!!) to go out and get a few sponsored prizes for the winning teams? It makes me laugh that in the DWSL we have to pay for our own prizegiving and our own medals!! What a sham!!!

One more thing. I am not for or against UCD or Mayo League. But to say UCD is a represenative team is wrong as all their players play for that club and not for any other. My arguement is based purely on the facts of the constant inconsistant methods and hap-hazzard approach to rules and organisation by the WFAI and the adverse affects it is going to have on a much larger level for us all.

**olegunnar** · 11/12/2006, 12:59 PM

2 more points.....

Anyone see how FAI's big UMBRO deal saw fit to exclude WFAI Competitions??

Also, UCD not a representative team at WFAI level, but i wouldn't call them representative at WSCAI level either, they are a club there too with membership being restricted to Students of the college, so it only "represents" UCD, thus making it a Club.

**johnmayo** · 11/12/2006, 1:28 PM

Countryripple I think that you under estimate the intelligence of the forum. We do not fail to understand the point that you are making and in a perfect world, you would be quite right. However CTID has a lot of experience and knowledge unless you are a member of DWSL or WFAI, you may not have all of the information.

I think that some of your points are a little naive and not fully thought out.

First point: If a club was set up in Mayo, to take on the other teams in Senior Cup, it would weaken all the other teams in that league and the competition would be very one sided. Result interest in the game in mayo would decline and the Mayo players would not get any meaningful competitive games until the later on in the season. The other players in Mayo would lose out in playing the other better players who would hammer them 8-0 nil and not really learn anything.
some clubs in Mayo do find it hard to fulfil fixtures and get 15 players to turn up. I can remember a few years ago Kilmurry played a Connaught Final with just 10 players. Actually Glen Celtic turned up with 11 players last weekend for a Connaught match. If a team loses one of two good players, it is very hard to replace them in clubs operating in weak areas.

Second point: since that you don't display any empathy with the running of a league or of a national organisation, you cannot insist (or force) teams to take part in a competition that they feel will be a waste of time or money. Many women’s team operate in men’s set up where long away trips and where they get hammered 10 -0 will have a hard time justifying the expense for the following year. Can you give examples where sports on a limited budget have offered a great incentive? Win trips to take part in other competitions, I thought that this is what Mayo have done although it wont be free!

Third point: it is really hard work to keep a league on the road and get competitions completed as I know (with two separate leagues). As a former League official I do not believe that prize gathering is as important as investing time and energy in developing the game with organising more training courses, establishing and supporting new clubs etc.

If the finances of DWSL are such a shambles will you volunteer to get a sponsor to cover the cost of those medals and prize giving?? I know of no league that would willing turn down an offer of time, effort and passion (which you do have:-) )

fourth point: UCD raison etre seems to be competiting in the UEFA Cup and their policy of approaching the best players in other teams to strengthen their team weakens their competitors which means that they are playing in weaker competition as a result. This year I see two Peamount girls were signed and they also approached Emma Mullin. I would be interested if UCD would play with out their scholarship players (allowing for them to return to their home clubs) and invest in more time in developing girls teams in South county Dublin.

fifth point: this situation will disappear when the National league comes into existence. I would rather like to get peoples opinion on how the Mayo League can maximise their Cup win in Mayo rather than continue this debate to death and before the flame wars start.

last point: You are probably capable to do a lot in the WFAI if you are to put willing to put yourself forward. If you were there, this haphazard approach might not exist.

**Countryripple** · 11/12/2006, 5:41 PM

Thanks for the reply Johnmayo, i understand what you are saying. But believe me, if God himself came down and offered the WFAI some advise and help on how to better the organisation of this sport for the country, they would still ignore him and suit themselves.