Sunday Football

[dcfcsteve]

This area of debate has been touched-on in other threads previously, but last night the IFA narrowly voted against changing its rules to allow Sunday football.

The vote needed a three-quarters majority, but was 69% to 28%.

Interesting to hear the senior Execs speak in favour of it - though I'm not happy with Howard Wells stated rationale for the change. He is suggesting that the population of Northern Ireland is different than it was only a few years ago, and that rules like this need to go to recognise that fact and make football more innclusive. I sincerely hope that's him presenting an arguement to persuade the less liberal-minded members of the IFA to vote to end the ban, as otherwise it's a complete snub on the nationalist/catholic community who have not just arrived in the last few years....

NI is now apparently the only UEFA jurisdiction that still bans football on a Sunday. A model of tolerance for all.

Even the GAA has managed to change its own archaic rules (though only temporarily with regards 'foreign' sports).

Sad that this archaic and sectarian rule survived at all. Hopefully Jim Boyce is right, and it'll be removed one day soon.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/5108834.stm

[Pat O' Banton]

I liked the quote from Reverend Philip Campbell stating "One of the issues that I think would concern people is what would happen to people who live near football grounds. There's extra traffic and parking - they would be denied the choice of being able to enjoy a quiet family day."

He obviously hasn't seen the crowds at your average Irish League game recently!

I suppose the idea is that less games clash with the big two in Scotand as well as EPL and fair play to the lFA looking at new ways of attracting fans into the stadiums but they are in ulitimately catch 22 situation. Most casual football fans aren't prepared to watch poor games in run down grounds and they can't improve the football stadiums while there is not people going to watch and invest in the game. I've seen Cliftonville playing on a day when there was no Celtic or United playing and Solitude was still hardly heaving.

[SwiftsSupporter]

This area of debate has been touched-on in other threads previously, but last night the IFA narrowly voted against changing its rules to allow Sunday football.

The vote needed a three-quarters majority, but was 69% to 28%.

Interesting to hear the senior Execs speak in favour of it - though I'm not happy with Howard Wells stated rationale for the change. He is suggesting that the population of Northern Ireland is different than it was only a few years ago, and that rules like this need to go to recognise that fact and make football more innclusive. I sincerely hope that's him presenting an arguement to persuade the less liberal-minded members of the IFA to vote to end the ban, as otherwise it's a complete snub on the nationalist/catholic community who have not just arrived in the last few years....

NI is now apparently the only UEFA jurisdiction that still bans football on a Sunday. A model of tolerance for all.

Even the GAA has managed to change its own archaic rules (though only temporarily with regards 'foreign' sports).

Sad that this archaic and sectarian rule survived at all. Hopefully Jim Boyce is right, and it'll be removed one day soon.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/5108834.stm

Oh how I love it when the Derry boys come on here

[Billy Lord]

What's the difference between playing football on Sunday compared to any other day? Surely the people of Northern Ireland aren't that backward? Don't give me that lord's day nonsense, cos there is no god, and that's a scientific fact. Maybe a Sunday KO might interfere with their shopping or something.

[David]

This area of debate has been touched-on in other threads previously, but last night the IFA narrowly voted against changing its rules to allow Sunday football.

The vote needed a three-quarters majority, but was 69% to 28%.

Interesting to hear the senior Execs speak in favour of it - though I'm not happy with Howard Wells stated rationale for the change. He is suggesting that the population of Northern Ireland is different than it was only a few years ago, and that rules like this need to go to recognise that fact and make football more innclusive. I sincerely hope that's him presenting an arguement to persuade the less liberal-minded members of the IFA to vote to end the ban, as otherwise it's a complete snub on the nationalist/catholic community who have not just arrived in the last few years....

NI is now apparently the only UEFA jurisdiction that still bans football on a Sunday. A model of tolerance for all.

Even the GAA has managed to change its own archaic rules (though only temporarily with regards 'foreign' sports).

Sad that this archaic and sectarian rule survived at all. Hopefully Jim Boyce is right, and it'll be removed one day soon.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/5108834.stm

Nothing to do with Derry City so why worry? I have said before that I feel any rule change would be cosmetic and I still feel that is the case. How many Eircom Premier League clubs take up the option to play Sunday football?

[Poor Student]

Don't give me that lord's day nonsense, cos there is no god, and that's a scientific fact.

Ever see the paedophile episode of Brass Eye? "A paedophile has more in common with a crab than a fellow human being. It can't be proven but it's a scientific fact!"

[dcfcsteve]

Oh how I love it when the Derry boys come on here

Thanks for the well-considered and insightful response Dungannon Swifts. You've excelled yourself......

The Dictionary.com definition of sectarian is as follows :

- Adhering or confined to the dogmatic limits of a sect or denomination;

Care to explain to us how a rule introuduced into sports to pander to the moral and religious strictures/dogma of a specific section of the Northern Irish community could be considered anything other than sectarian ?

Care also to explain why it should only now be presented as logical to change such a rule to meet the realities of life for a few new Eastern European Catholic and African/Asian Muslim members in our community, whilst it wasn't considered logical to do so to reflect the realities of life for a significant section of our indigenous community ?

Thw answer is that I suspect you have no sensible or intelligent answer. Hence the resort to snide remarks. Even a large majority within the IFA wants the rule changed. So don't even try to defend the indefensible.

Oh I love it when the flat-earthists come on here......

[dcfcsteve]

Nothing to do with Derry City so why worry?

Firstly - just because my team don't play in the Northern Irish league doesn't remove my right to have a view on it.

Secondly - this is not a football issue. It's a broader issue - about the normalising of life in Northern Ireland, and the removal of archaic cultural and social barriers on all sides (e.g. the GAA ban on RUC/PSNI players). NI Rugby had their 'Sunday game' issue to address only a year or so ago, and they tackled it. This was football's chance to do the same, and they failed. So another archaic block to the normalising of life in Northern Ireland is maintained.

I have said before that I feel any rule change would be cosmetic and I still feel that is the case.

And as I've stated before, that is irrelevant. It's about doing the right thing, and getting rid of sectarian rules in a society that has been deeply traumatised by religious conflict. I don't see why you can't understand and accept the need to do this. We could bring in a rule tomorrow requiring all Irish League players to publically shout "Bless you holy father !" whenever the Pope is reported in the News Letter as sneezing. The fact he's unlikely to be so reported - and that it could therefore be considered 'cosmetic' - would be feckin irrelevant to a rule that would clearly pander to only one section of society.

Also - very few young people make use of their right to vote, for example. Does that thereforemean they should have it taken off them, for fear of it beign considered cosmetic ?

How many Eircom Premier League clubs take up the option to play Sunday football?

It understandably varies with time, but I'd say practically every club has played a game on a Sunday at some point or other in the last 5-10 years. The FAI Cup final is traditionally held on a Sunday, for example, as are a number of European games. So there's your answer. Regardless - as stated above, failure to utilise a right is no justification for having that right removed or denied to you in the first place.

P.S. Bray are playing Drogheda this coming Sunday...

[SwiftsSupporter]

Did I defend it? No. I just pointed out that every time you come on here it's has always got something to do with how Catholics are mistreated or sectarian which hardly shows much intelligence on your part.

On this matter I was always far from against it but now I wouldn't really want to watch a match on a Sunday as I’ve other things to do on that day. Hardly to do with religion or old IFA members is it?

[gustavo]

On this matter I was always far from against it but now I wouldn't really want to watch a match on a Sunday as I’ve other things to do on that day. Hardly to do with religion or old IFA members is it?

Welll i wouldnt really want to have our games on a Wednesday say , but i dont think there should be a law against playing on Wednesdays

[dcfcsteve]

Did I defend it? No. I just pointed out that every time you come on here it's has always got something to do with how Catholics are mistreated or sectarian which hardly shows much intelligence on your part.

Look Swifts - I have made over 2,000 postings on this site. To suggest that I use foot.ie to drive some sort of agenda re Catholics and sectarianism is childishly pathetic. I could say the same about you, with your whopping 27 posts....

Where were my comments re Catholics/sectarianism on the 'Coleraine Buyout' or 'Darren kelly' threads, for example - 2 recetthreads that I have posted on ? Every time my feckin' arse...... ! You'll find just as many posts from me on the Irish League section rejecting any role for sectarianism and religion in Northern Irish football from the supposed catholic side of the fence. Take a look in the threads about Donegal Celtic. The knife cuts every possible way for me. But then, that wouldn't help your attempts to tar me in a certain way now, would it......

Regardless - this is undoubtedly an issue with sectarian over and undertones. Shame on me for pointing that out - I should just lie down in the corner and not kick-up a fuss, like a good wee croppy. Idiot.....

And you question my intelligence......

On this matter I was always far from against it but now I wouldn't really want to watch a match on a Sunday as I’ve other things to do on that day. Hardly to do with religion or old IFA members is it?

But that's the whole feckin point - freedom of choice. You have the freedom to choose on what day you want to watch a football game. But the clubs playing it do not have the freedom to choose when to play. And the reaosn for this is because a law that was introduced on purely religious grounds. There is no way of avoiding that simple fact.

[Lux Interior]

I sincerely hope that's him presenting an arguement to persuade the less liberal-minded members of the IFA to vote to end the ban, as otherwise it's a complete snub on the nationalist/catholic community who have not just arrived in the last few years....

Am I reading you correctly here, that not ending this ban is a "complete snub" to ONLY the "nationalist/catholic community"?



And anyway, the IFA have also voted in their complete compliance with FIFA statutes. Technically any clubs wishing to play on Sunday should now be able to do so, as FIFA permits same and FIFA's decree will carry legal weight over any localised issue.

[dcfcsteve]

Am I reading you correctly here, that not ending this ban is a "complete snub" to ONLY the "nationalist/catholic community"?

No - you're reading it completely incorrectly.

It says that the only thing that has changed is that a few new people have arrived in the country who have interests that are deemed to clash with the rule, whilst we've had a huge section of the community in NI since the rule was implemented who have interests that are deemed to clash with the rule.

Therefore, the biggest snub to the nationalist community was that it wasn't deemed worthy of changing before.

The snub of this rule not being chaged is against pretty much everyone, and also against common sense and FIFA. there are plenty of non-Catholics who would like to see the rule changed, and plenty of protestants who I'm sure would have no problem watching football on a Sunday (as Is the case with Ulster rugby). Hell - some may even prefer Sunday ! It also flys in the face of common sense in such a divided society, and as you've pointed out is in contrast to FIFA's own rules. So pretty much everyone gets a snub here.

And anyway, the IFA have also voted in their complete compliance with FIFA statutes. Technically any clubs wishing to play on Sunday should now be able to do so, as FIFA permits same and FIFA's decree will carry legal weight over any localised issue.

Good to hear. Though I think it would take a very brave club to openly ignore the failure to reverse this IFA rule, and to seek to subvert it via refererence to FIFA rules. They'd find themselves in the middle of a storm. Though perhaps openly defying it in this way would be the only way of having the hardcore of dinosaurs in Northern irish football over-ruled.

And if the rule is now technically irrelevant - then why was it still clung to regardless by sections of Northern Irish football ?

[David]

Firstly - just because my team don't play in the Northern Irish league doesn't remove my right to have a view on it.

What you really mean is that you love anything that you can use as a stick to beat the Irish League.

[dcfcsteve]

What you really mean is that you love anything that you can use as a stick to beat the Irish League.

Yawn. And what you mean is that you love anything that you can use as a stick to beat me with.

You're so far off the truth as to be laughable. Would you be interested in knowing that I generally attend more Irish League games than I do Eircom League matches ? Or that I've currently got sample chapters of a book I'm writing on the Irish league out at publishers (and no - not a negative one, or one from a Derry City angle) ? Probably not - as i doesn't fit your tactic of discrediting a viewpoint by attackiing the person who presents it.

Bottom line is guys - the Sunday football rule is archaic, sectarian and thoroughly indefensible. Trying to attack me personally does not alter any of that. Tackle the issue, not the poster.

[SwiftsSupporter]

Look Swifts - I have made over 2,000 postings on this site. To suggest that I use foot.ie to drive some sort of agenda re Catholics and sectarianism is childishly pathetic. I could say the same about you, with your whopping 27 posts....

So this is about posts. I have 27 now 28 posts on and Eircom league forum but over 6000 on an Irish league forum so if you want to talk about posts there ya go I win hurrah for me.

Where were my comments re Catholics/sectarianism on the 'Coleraine Buyout' or 'Darren kelly' threads, for example - 2 recetthreads that I have posted on ? Every time my feckin' arse...... ! You'll find just as many posts from me on the Irish League section rejecting any role for sectarianism and religion in Northern Irish football from the supposed catholic side of the fence. Take a look in the threads about Donegal Celtic. The knife cuts every possible way for me. But then, that wouldn't help your attempts to tar me in a certain way now, would it......

No doubt you and your fellow supporters tried. Really though every topic like this it is always about sectarianism. On the Coleraine bit it actully turned into how yous were mistreated by them instead of how well they did about rallying supporters and buying their club.

But that's the whole feckin point - freedom of choice. You have the freedom to choose on what day you want to watch a football game. But the clubs playing it do not have the freedom to choose when to play. And the reaosn for this is because a law that was introduced on purely religious grounds. There is no way of avoiding that simple fact.

So its not about catholic mistreatment?

[dcfcsteve]

So this is about posts. I have 27 now 28 posts on and Eircom league forum but over 6000 on an Irish league forum so if you want to talk about posts there ya go I win hurrah for me.

It's painfully embarassing that I have to explain this for you, but I will. You asserted that I always post about Catholics and sectarianism. I pointed out that with over 2,000 posts on Foot.ie as a whole, that that was patently untrue. I then went on to show how it wasn't even true with regards my postings on the Irish League sub-forum. Though I'm delighted for you with your large number of posts on ILF.

Really though every topic like this it is always about sectarianism.

I'm sorry Swifts, but there is no other way to look at this particular rule except in such terms, as it is blatantly sectarian. I even provided you with the dictionary definition of the word 'sectarian' to highlight how this was the case. The 'no Sunday football's rule was introduced to pander to the religious morals of a particular segment of Northern Irish society. It is therefore self-evidently sectarian.

On the Coleraine bit it actully turned into how yous were mistreated by them instead of how well they did about rallying supporters and buying their club.

Firstkly - I didn't personally talk in any such terms. I corrected a Derry supporter who did though, whilst wishing them well. Derry fans do not share libidos you know.

Secondly - Derry fans understandably feel/felt let-down by the actions of Coleraine's board back in 1973. Pointing that out is not sectarian. How you draw that conclusion, I simply do not know.

Thirdly - DCFC has always had Protestant supporters. More so in our Irish League days than now, but we still have cross-community support even now (even when playing in a foreign country on a Sunday ! ) . City's rotestant support was just as aggrieved towards Coleraine in 1973 as it's Catholic support was. That shows that the issue, from the side of Derry fans, was not about religion.

So its not about catholic mistreatment?

The 'No football on a Sunday' law is about one segment of Northern Irish society forcing its religious morals on all others. As the biggest 'others' segment in the province, it therefore primarily impacts upon Catholics. But it is equally sectarian towards the Mulsim, Hindu, Buddhist, Jewish, Agnostic and indeed certain minority 'Dissenter' sections of our community as it is for Catholics. It's wrong and sectarian full-stop.

[Lux Interior]

The 'No football on a Sunday' law is about one segment of Northern Irish society forcing its religious morals on all others. As the biggest 'others' segment in the province, it therefore primarily impacts upon Catholics. But it is equally sectarian towards the Mulsim, Hindu, Buddhist, Jewish, Agnostic and indeed certain minority 'Dissenter' sections of our community as it is for Catholics. It's wrong and sectarian full-stop.

You really should have stopped at the end of the first sentence reproduced here.

"On all others" would include those sections of Protestantism NOT aligned to Free Presbytarianism (because, let's face it, that particular sect are most vociferous re: 'never-on-Sunday').

It "primarily impacts" upon those who follow the game and who want to see this archaic rule removed, religions notwithstanding.

You are at pains to define 'sectarianism' and then you posit a sectarian headcount above.

[dcfcsteve]

You really should have stopped at the end of the first sentence reproduced here.

"On all others" would include those sections of Protestantism NOT aligned to Free Presbytarianism (because, let's face it, that particular sect are most vociferous re: 'never-on-Sunday').

It "primarily impacts" upon those who follow the game and who want to see this archaic rule removed, religions notwithstanding.

You are at pains to define 'sectarianism' and then you posit a sectarian headcount above.

This rule 'favours' the scruples of one religion over all others, and limits the activities of people of other faiths and none as a result. Me pointing that fact out is not sectarian.

I included non Free P's above in my refernce to 'Dissenters' (though admittedly that doesn't include the Anglican church).

I also mentioned 'agnostics' to show that it isn't just a religious issue - and that it affects pretty much everyone.

Neveretheless, it is naive to assert that such a rule can only be about football, when it is in fact endemic of wider problems within Northern Irish society (problems caused/shared on all sides). To use a more extreme example, the boycotted/contentious South African sports tours in the 1980's were about more than just rugby, cricket etc.

I'm not the one who is clutching at straws to question why this rule is wrong - I'm just spelling it out for the blinkered on here who refuse to accept it for what it is. Hence the detailed list to show the less-enlighteend that it isn't just about Catholics.

[Lux Interior]

What is this "one religion over all others" you refer to? The rule is wrong, it is archaic and it should go. It does NOT discriminate on account of religion, ergo it is not sectarian, it is just plain daft.

And, please, don't quote me passages of Tolstoy.