A Tale of Two Coaches: Kerr v Pekerman

[wws]

He gave debuts to over 15 players, most of which just weren't/aren't good enough.

Unfortunately True.

a lotta people just want the good times back but dont understand that it takes more than just debuting 50 sub standard players in every friendly - a lot more.

[NeilMcD]

Eirebhoy I think the point that is made here is that Kerr was a great manager but WWS is trying to say that he is up there with Pekerman man and if it was not for those pesky kids (The FAI) that we would be in a world Cup semi Final with Kerr as the manager. There is a lot more to that. Number one reason is talen. Argentinas players have the talent and drive to go to the top. Are guys did not. Its all very well saying we were on a par with the same guys at under 18. But as Liam Brady has said, every young guy that leaves Ireland to play football is talented But luck, drive passion and many other factores come into it. Not sure it helps that all our players are coached by English coaches and we dont have mixed coaching cultures.

[NeilMcD]

Come on WWS give us your 10 point what should have happend from 1997.

[wws]

1 John Delaney and his ilk should have been shot
2 Roy Keane and Brian Kerr should have been put in charge or at the very least ppl who shared their vision
3 Mick Byrne and co should have been put out to grass
4 money should have poured in to creating a link between youth development and our National Senior clubs


thats 4 for starters!

[drinkfeckarse]

Kerr may well have had the technical know how but the team lacked passion with him at the helm and that is just as important as getting your tactics right. Ultimately the buck stopped with him over why that was and it was the right decision IMO to sack him.

Very valid points wws re Mick Byrne but if he's only there to put a smile back on the players faces well then that will help them on the park IMO.

[pineapple stu]

Didn't we beat Ghana in the 3rd place play off, or were Ghana in the final? I've only a hazy memory at this stage. But if I'm right, how many of those Ghanaians are in the WC06 squad?

We beat Ghana 2-1 in the 3rd place play off (after losing to them in the gorup stages). Dessie Baker scored after about 20 seconds and Duffer also scored.

[Bald Student]

We beat Ghana 2-1 in the 3rd place play off (after losing to them in the gorup stages). Dessie Baker scored after about 20 seconds and Duffer also scored.

Are you sure? I could have sworn that Aidan Lynch scored the winner in that game.

[pineapple stu]

Nope - he got carted off injured after about 25 minutes.

[Dodge]

Thought Glen Crowe got the other goal in the 3rd/4th play off

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997_FI...onship_(squads)
Some well known players in those squads. 2 points for the person who can name all 6 players who went on to play for Pats. 5 points to whoever can tell me what happened that Brazilian top scorer

[Stuttgart88]

We beat Ghana 2-1 in the 3rd place play off (after losing to them in the gorup stages). Dessie Baker scored after about 20 seconds and Duffer also scored.

OK, I'll dig up the respective squads to compare. Back in 4 hours!

eirebhoy, there was just so much "same old, same old" and things that COULD have changed: McGeady, who ran Colocchini(spelling?) ragged at Celtic, barely got a sniff, Duff being repeatedly played as a striker, players like Reid, Dunne & Delap exiled, Doherty as super-sub, Carr favoured over Finnan, players who actually did do well in friendlies were ditched again...

I thought the future was bright after Holland in June 2004, just like I thought it was bright after Finland in August 2002. Why did it all go so wrong?

The initial premise was that the FAI was the difference between Pekerman & Kerr. A key element of Pekerman's teams' progress was the fact that Argentina are in total control over their players' development. We're almost totally dependent on a foreign league & a foreign system that can no longer be relied upon to develop our players, and even if it could, they'd be turned out technically inequipped to compete with the best foreign sides anyway. Whatever you think about Delaney I don't think anyone could have solved this problem over that time period, but as I said above, I'd feel far more confident about the whole football set up in Ireland if someone like Kerr was in charge.

[frankbrett]

Argentina 1997 youth squad

1 FRANCO Leonardo
20/05/1977
2 CUFRE Leonardo
09/05/1978
3 SAMUEL Walter
23/03/1978
4 SERRIZUELA Juan
25/01/1977
5 CAMBIASSO Esteban
18/08/1980
6 MARKIC Diego
09/01/1977
7 QUINTANA Diego
24/04/1978
8 RIQUELME Juan
24/06/1978
9 ROMEO Bernardo
10/09/1977
10 AIMAR Pablo
03/11/1979
11 RODRIGUEZ Pablo
07/03/1977
12 MUNOZ Cristian
01/07/1977
13 CUBERO Fabian
21/12/1978
14 PLACENTE Diego
24/04/1977
15 PEREZLINDO Martin
03/01/1977
16 DIEZ Nicolas
09/02/1977
17 ROMERO Sebastian
27/04/1978
18 SCALONI Lionel
16/05/1978

[Stuttgart88]

OK, I'll dig up the respective squads to compare. Back in 4 hours!

Sorry, didn't see the posts above.

[pineapple stu]

Thought Glen Crowe got the other goal in the 3rd/4th play off

Nope, definitely Duffer. Quality finish from the edge of the box after being played through. Think he also crossed for Baker to score as well. Have the game on video at home.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997_FI...nship_(squads))

You were missing a bracket on that link - think that's OK now.

Some well known players in those squads. 2 points for the person who can name all 6 players who went on to play for Pats. 5 points to whoever can tell me what happened that Brazilian top scorer.

Oooh, I like points!

Trevor Molloy, Derek O'Connor, Thomas Morgan and Colin Hawkins for a start. Spotted Con Blatsis down the way. And of course Jeff Clarke. Yayyy!

Three of those players actually ended up at UCD as well - want a guess at to which three? Two are fairly easy, one not so.

No idea about the Brazilian.

That French squad is phenomenal!!

[Soko]

Take the following most recent competitive games in sequence: Israel away, Israel at home, Faroes away, France at home, Cyprus away, Switzerland at home. Which of these showed signs that Kerr was up to the task? If my results at work fell this far short of my targets I'd be long gone out of here.

That says it all really, he had to go. That sequence of results and performances was an absolute disgrace and got worse as time went on.

[pineapple stu]

That sequence of results and performances[...]got worse as time went on.

Think that's the most important point. Regression, not progression.

[Jerry The Saint]

Here's the FIFA page:

http://www.fifa.com/en/comp/PrevTeam...97-112,00.html

Never realised Blast'dis and Clarke were in that tournament.

List of Goalscorers:

Players Played Total Goals Penalty Goals
ADAILTON (BRA)
5 10 2
TREZEGUET David (FRA)
5 5 0
SALAPASIDIS Kosta (AUS)
4 4 1
ALEX (BRA)
5 4 0
YANAGISAWA Atsushi (JPN)
5 4 1
ROMEO Bernardo (ARG)
7 4 0
ZALAYETA Marcelo (URU)
7 4 0
RIQUELME Juan (ARG)
7 4 2
VAN HANDENHOVEN Gunter (BEL)
4 3 0
LILLINGSTON Eduardo (MEX)
4 3 1
MURPHY Danny (ENG)
4 3 1
OWEN Michael (ENG)
4 3 1
DEUS (ESP)
5 3 0
HENRY Thierry (FRA)
5 3 0

From the England squad:

14 MACKEN Jonathan
07/09/1977

Heh-heh.

[DmanDmythDledge]

I think that the main reason why our underage superstars did not develop into future senior internationals was that they were being shipped off to England at the earliest opportunity because the LoI is not up to standard. It would have been far better if the players were able to make sufficient progress playing in Ireland but that would have damaged the players development. Many of the players obviously did not have the drive and determination to make it to the top. They were left in the hands of an English club which did not have the players development as a priority. Most Argentinian and Brazilians leave their country to play in Europe at the age of 20/21 and staying at home has done them good. Basically the point I'm making is that a players development is best nutured at home but this can only be done by implementing a youth system similar to the South Americans and then hope that the EL will continue to sustain the levels of progress it has made in the past few years, so that more Irish underage stars will play their trade at home.

[stickyjoe]

[QUOTE=eirebhoy]we'd have won that game we would have been the first team to win in Israel in a decade and a half and Kerr would have been praised.
QUOTE]

israel never had an unbeaten record in israel like that. in 99 they even got hammered 5-0 by denmark in isreal in the euro 2000 qualifying play off

[NeilMcD]

Also getting back to the original post, I dont think that Pekerman would be in charge if he failed to qualify for the World Cup with Argentina. its all very well praising their FA for keeping faith and claiming the FAI are backstabbers but Pekerman has been successful in charge and Kerr was not. I think Kerr is more suited to the role that Stuttgart has hinted at rather than as national team manager.



Also WWS many irish fans would be appaled at the thought of Roy Keane in charge of the Irish team. I would not but I could understand their anger.

[NeilMcD]

1 John Delaney and his ilk should have been shot
2 Roy Keane and Brian Kerr should have been put in charge or at the very least ppl who shared their vision
3 Mick Byrne and co should have been put out to grass
4 money should have poured in to creating a link between youth development and our National Senior clubs


thats 4 for starters!

So you are encouraging murder or attempted murder. What do you mean Delaney and his ilk should have been shot what exactly does that mean.


kerr was put in charge and Keane was brought back and we failed to qualify or to improve performances

What exactly has Mick Byrne done wrong. he is not a physio he is there to increase team spirit hardly a bad thing.


I agree with the 4th aspect but that is to do with Government funding.