New Zealand v Ireland- Second Test

[geysir]

No predictions from me, the standard set is too high.
I had a look at the team selected. On the quote from George Hook

Rugby is now a 22-man game and substitutions can be turning points in the contest.

The squad is extremly thin, cut to the bone for substitutes to the forwards.

16 - Rory Best Belfast Harlequins/Ulster 3

17 - Bryan Young Ballymena/Ulster 0

18 - Mick O'Driscoll Cork Constitution/Munster 5

19 - Keith Gleeson St.Mary's College/Leinster 24

20 - Isaac Boss Ballymena/Ulster 0

21 - Denis Hickie St.Mary's College/Leinster 51

22 - Girvan Dempsey Terenure College/Leinster 64

[Real ale Madrid]

I see Troy Flavell on the BBC website saying they are going to clean us off the park. I dislike the New Zealand attitude - all arrogance when they win, not a beep out of them when they lose. The way they handled the spear tackle thing last year was bad, but that has been discussed to death at this stage. As for a prediction - New Zealand by 10-12 again although i just hope we are competitive. C'mon Ireland!!!!

[Aberdonian Stu]

I am sick at that tackle being inaccurately called a spear tackle. Yes it was awful and vile but it bore no resemblance to a spear, it was a dump tackle.

[Plastic Paddy]

I see Troy Flavell on the BBC website saying they are going to clean us off the park. I dislike the New Zealand attitude - all arrogance when they win, not a beep out of them when they lose. As for a prediction - New Zealand by 10-12 again although i just hope we are competitive. C'mon Ireland!!!!

Agreed and good call on the score. I think we were playing sixteen men today though - to put it as diplomatically as I can, Jonathan Kaplan's refereeing was strictly southern hemisphere in its approach. I lost count of the number of All Black offences that were let go - particularly from players coming in from round the side and from collapsing the scrum - but he was punitive when it came to Ireland. Indeed, the penalty from which Luke McAllister scored the final try was a clear All Black knock-on (Ireland offside my árse).

Anyway, bleating over. In spite of the two defeats we gave them a bloody nose and showed fight, particularly in the second test, right up until the end. Bring on Australia.

PP

[Real ale Madrid]

Agreed and good call on the score. I think we were playing sixteen men today though - to put it as diplomatically as I can, Jonathan Kaplan's refereeing was strictly southern hemisphere in its approach. I lost count of the number of All Black offences that were let go - particularly from players coming in from round the side and from collapsing the scrum - but he was punitive when it came to Ireland. Indeed, the penalty from which Luke McAllister scored the final try was a clear All Black knock-on (Ireland offside my árse).

Anyway, bleating over. In spite of the two defeats we gave them a bloody nose and showed fight, particularly in the second test, right up until the end. Bring on Australia.

PP

I had to laugh when with about 5 mins to go he gave us a penalty for taking men out off the ball - as if they only started that tactic after 75minutes!!!

You cant fault our lads for effort anyway - i know all this plucky loser crap is highly annoying but credit were it is due - they really gave it everything. Pity it took them half an hour to get going properly. Judging by the comparitive intensity of the Australia/England game so far we have a real chance of winning next week.

[geysir]

I don't know the rules so well but I liked Kaplan's control in contrast to some other ref's drill sargeant routine.
Near the end the ref penalised an AB in a ruck for slapping out at O'Driscoll yet just before that, in full view, an AB leapt over the ruck landed the other side, grabbed/tackled an Irish player and pushed him back 5 metres, no foul. 'Tis a strange game.

[pete]

Ireland competed between this time but conditions were like Munster game for O'Gara.

The All Blacks have lots of tricks but if you can stay with them will always give up scores.

Watched some of Australia hammering England and even allowing for rubbish England the Aussie look very impressive.

O'Gara can kick and pass at the higeste level but he cannot run, can't tackle and is poor holding onto possession in the tackle.

Again EOS failed to use his bench until game was over. I thought he should have brought on O'Driscoll and Gleeson alongside Dempsey with 15-20 minutes left. In the first half in particular the irish backs left their forwards down badly.

[Soko]

I am sick at that tackle being inaccurately called a spear tackle. Yes it was awful and vile but it bore no resemblance to a spear, it was a dump tackle.

It was a spear tackle

[Aberdonian Stu]

A spear only involves one man who ploughs his head into the torso of the opponent sending him backwards, and usually to the ground. It causes extreme pressure on the neck of the tackler and was outlawed in the sport where it originated, American football.

The spear name is associated with the head being the tip of the spear.

While extremely dangerous to the guy getting hit, because of the power of impact, it's a bigger threat to the tackler and caused 7 players to be paralysed for life in one season back in the 70s.

What happened to BOD was appalling but was a different kind of tackle.

[Soko]

You're taking the defintion too far. It had become a fairly common pratice to term the tackle when turning a person upside down and landing them head first into the ground as a spear tackle. Thats the differentiation people are looking at between a dump tackle and a spear tackle, not the American football version.


In todays context that was a spear tackle, the American football references are not relevant.

[Aberdonian Stu]

I'm using the Gridiron example as a starting point. The type of tackle has been used in Rugby and...GAA (yes ugly, pointless, but it has happened there).

Just because something became common practice doesn't mean it's accurate, the title should bear some resemblance to the action.

[joeSoap]

In rugby speak, a spear tackle is when a player gets lifted, turned and dropped head or shoulder first onto the ground...which is exactly what Umaga and Meealamu did to O'Driscoll last summer.

Getting back to the game; Some of our play was terrible. George Hook said in his ratings that Geordan Murphy had an error free 80 minutes without doing anything spectacular....I must have been watching a different game. The first 4 balls Murphy took into contact were spilled forward or stripped from him. Hook got the second part of his analysis right.

He also slated Trimble, giving him a 3/10 rating. He wasn't all that bad. D'Arcy was por best back, and by and large it was a great performance. O'Connell looked the class act he is, and apart from getting savaged in the tight, the pack played above themselves at times.

I think we'll beat the Aussies and round off a good tour.

[Aberdonian Stu]

Trimble isn't a winger naturally and when he comes undone that's usually why. Having said that prior to the first test I hadn't seen any problems with him out there.

As for Australia I'm no so confident. While I would have expected the Aussies to thump England regardless of how we were playing I think they will go into the test with a lot of confidence.

I'm not saying we can't win, we certainly can and Ireland will be confident too, I just don't think we will.