Are we really THAT bad?

**Poor Student** · 14/06/2006, 11:14 AM

Osarusan, while you're giving a foreign opinion of Ireland, I'll give you another one. Here in the Balkans we're looked down on as a side with little skill or technical ability who sometimes manage to grind their way through but aren't thought of as all that good.

**mypost** · 14/06/2006, 11:37 AM

For all the Balkan's skill and technical ability, it's won them the grand total of 0 major championships in 75 odd years.

As for Stuttgart's post, it's true that there is a mini-crisis in our team and set-up at the moment, but even though most of the problems in our last campaign were self-created, we did come to within one goal of ensuring the Swiss stayed at home this summer. We do have problems going into the next qualifiers, but I wouldn't agree with some of the doom and gloomers here. We got a good group, a decent enough fixture list, and with an over-rated Czech side losing players after the World Cup, and Germany hardly pulling up any trees now, we will be competitive. Whether we will actually qualify is hard to say at the moment, but we'll be there or thereabouts, and it will be a nail-biting end to the group for us.

**Stuttgart88** · 14/06/2006, 11:42 AM

Technically good enough to compete well in international football:

Given
Finnan
Dunne
O'Brien
Carr (when he wants to be)
S. Reid
Robbie
Duff

Kavanagh (but not mobile / athletic enough)

Technically mediocre by international standards:
A. Reid (needs to be fully match fit & playing regularly)
Morrison
O'Shea
Lawrence
McGeady (very skillful but I've classed him as mediocre on basis of his final ball)
Paddy Kenny

Technically poor:

Kilbane - no way is he a central midfielder, but I'd have him as a LB
Doherty

Technically good but not up for it physically:

Liam Miller

Near Term Potential / Jury Still Out:

Elliott - honestly, this guy is a totally instinctive goalscorer. Watch him when he's fit.
Doyle
Paddy McCarthy - not skillful, but physical - a requirement for a CB as evidenced by the WC so far
Owen Garvan
Joey O'Brien
Ireland - but is he tough enough?
Our Management Team!

Wild cards:
Glenn Whelan
Stephen Ward
Ronnie O'Brien
Jay Tabb
Terry Dixon

+ others whose names didn't immediately spring to mind. Anyone agree / disagree?

**Reality Bites** · 14/06/2006, 11:58 AM

The Czechs looked far from over-rated and say more like under-rated..Rosicky would punish our midfield

**concanta** · 14/06/2006, 11:58 AM

I totally agree. We have the basis of an ok team - if a few of these possible players come good then that can turn into a good team

I think the close season ( after the world cup when the transfers start) and the early part of next season is very very important

Ireland and O'Brien need to cement their places in their club teams
I would like Garvan to move somewhere like Wigan/Charlton/Reading a lower ranked premiership team where he is likely to get a game

McGeady needs to be injury free and be involved in the CL

**mypost** · 14/06/2006, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Technically good enough to compete well in international football:

Given
Finnan
Dunne
O'Brien
Carr (when he wants to be)
S. Reid
Robbie
Duff

Kavanagh (but not mobile / athletic enough)

Technically mediocre by international standards:
A. Reid (needs to be fully match fit & playing regularly)
Morrison
O'Shea
Lawrence
McGeady (very skillful but I've classed him as mediocre on basis of his final ball)
Paddy Kenny

Technically poor:

Kilbane - no way is he a central midfielder, but I'd have him as a LB
Doherty

Technically good but not up for it physically:

Liam Miller

Near Term Potential / Jury Still Out:

Elliott - honestly, this guy is a totally instinctive goalscorer. Watch him when he's fit.
Doyle
Paddy McCarthy - not skillful, but physical - a requirement for a CB as evidenced by the WC so far
Owen Garvan
Joey O'Brien
Ireland - but is he tough enough?
Our Management Team!

Wild cards:
Glenn Whelan
Stephen Ward
Ronnie O'Brien
Jay Tabb
Terry Dixon

+ others whose names didn't immediately spring to mind. Anyone agree / disagree?

Changes to above list:
S. Reid relegated to Mediocre, O' Brien dropped to Poor, Morrison likewise. To describe him as Mediocre, would be an exaggeration. Kenny to Jury Out, as he never gets to play. Doyle to Good Enough. Jason Byrne added to Jury Out.

**eirebhoy** · 14/06/2006, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by Reality Bites

The Czechs looked far from over-rated and say more like under-rated..Rosicky would punish our midfield

They have Rosicky, we have Duff. The current Czech team is excellent but their most influencial players (Nedved, Koller, Poborsky, Galasek) will most likely retire after the WC.

**Stuttgart88** · 14/06/2006, 1:01 PM

We actually beat the Czech Rep recently enough. I know that these friendlies count for little but they do show that we can compete with these teams if we're on our game.

I'd have Robbie Keane over Baros any day too. And Shay Given is one of the few keepers in the game as good as Petr Cech.

I don't think we should be sh1tting ourselves because of the US game, but we always knew they were a quality team anyway. I'm looking forward to playing them.

**Paddy Garcia** · 14/06/2006, 1:33 PM

Suggested changes to list:

*Kavanagh - relegate to technically poor
*Lawrence - move to Jury Out - not had a chance to show what he can do yet.
* and by the same token McGeady, who I don't think can be accused of being technically poor rather very near term potential
* A Reid is technically excellent so perhaps is in the "not up to it physically " category
* Kilbane more mediocre than poor
* If Dixon is a wild card then throw in Rooney & Long
* As far as relegating O'Brien to poor - well we would certainly miss him badly if he was gone tomorrow, that might change our view on his worth.

**dancinpants** · 14/06/2006, 5:23 PM

The talent is defo there, but if you don't know what to do with it its useless. The team needs leadership on and off the pitch. At the mo there doesn't seem to be any drive or cohesion there. Staunton has his work cut out.

**The Legend** · 14/06/2006, 7:34 PM

its a disappointing summer with regards to transfers for irish players so far... hopefully next season will be good, but looking at the quality of some teams at the world cup.... hmnnn... worrying...

**concanta** · 14/06/2006, 9:33 PM

Well it was always going to be quiet until world cup is over
I think duff and reid could be on the move.

people say the czechs are fiercely impressive - maybe but I didn't think too much of the Germand against a really poor Polish team

**Feech** · 14/06/2006, 11:27 PM

Originally Posted by vega007

I disagree with the lad that said that Ireland would get beaten by some of the African teams. I'm not impressed with any of the African teams in the WC so far and I reckon we'd beat any of them handily on neutral ground.

And Ireland vs Nigeria played in London 2 years ago ended with a handy win for the Irish?

**Feech** · 14/06/2006, 11:31 PM

Originally Posted by osarusan

I live in Japan and work with other foreigners here. With the World Cup on, there have been some comments about the weaker teams not being as good as some European teams who didnt qualify. Ireland are frequently mentioned as an example of this kind of team, and I used to agree with that opinion, even though I cant watch the Irish games over here, so I didnt see any of the qualifying games.

But having just watched Switzerland against France, I might have to review my position. Switzerland, who finished ahead of us (not by much, I know) were just TERRIBLE. No tactics save the long ball, no midfield at all, the left back Magnin is just a joke, the list goes on.

Now I know it was against France, against whom any team would be happy with a draw, so I didnt expect too much from the Swiss in terms of attacking football, but that was awful.

Are Ireland really worse than that?

Ireland are so much worse that not only did they finish behind France and Switzerland in the qualifiers and fail to beat either, but even Israel finished above them.

Stop with the sour grapes and wishful thinking and have a look at results before you try to hint that a team which finishes fourth in a qualifying group has some divine right to be at the World Cup.

**tetsujin1979** · 15/06/2006, 12:16 AM

Originally Posted by Feech

And Ireland vs Nigeria played in London 2 years ago ended with a handy win for the Irish?

The centre half pairing that day was the Doc and Kenny, who between them have exactly zero pace. One of Kenny's best (yet criminally underrated) qualities was organisation of the back line, but he needs someone with pace to follow his orders. O'Brien did this perfectly, Doc did like he was on medication. They never played as in central defence again.
For all that, the player that disappointed me most that day was Robbie Keane, time and again he came back into midfield to claim the ball, try to beat the Nigerian midfield and defence all by himself and inevitably lose possession. On more than one occasion this led to a counter attack and a Nigerian chance, and eventually it led to the 3rd goal.

**Fergie's Son** · 15/06/2006, 3:20 AM

Originally Posted by Paddy Garcia

Sheridan was a brilliant midfielder. He could pass the ball better than anyone we have today. As soon as he left Wednesday they were relegated (no concidence) & whilst there they were more often than not near the top end of the division & competing in cup finals. Most Wedesday fans will tell you he was the heartbeat of the team pulling all the strings & more important than Waddle.

To write him off in terms of "selective" use of a name as a make weight is entirely wrong.

..& we can thank his goal for getting us to the WC finals.

Thank you for this. I have been trumpeting the virtues of Sheridan for some time now. A real classy player who should have played more games for Ireland!

**mypost** · 15/06/2006, 3:35 AM

Originally Posted by Feech

Ireland are so much worse that not only did they finish behind France and Switzerland in the qualifiers and fail to beat either, but even Israel finished above them.

By that, you'd swear that we finished 15 points behind them.

I pointed it out to you at the time, but will remind you again, that we came within one goal of a WC play-off, and we wouldn't have even needed that, if France had held on to their lead in Switzerland. Tournaments swing on things like that sometimes. For the '94 WC, we qualified for it ahead of Denmark, by that rare Irish method of scoring more goals than them.

In '94 we got the breaks, this year we didn't. That's how
it goes sometimes.

We will be there or thereabouts in the coming campaign. The Germans, Czechs, and Slovaks will take points off each other, while we'll have Croker, and have the advantage of finishing our games first. It will go down to the wire again.

**osarusan** · 15/06/2006, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by Feech

Ireland are so much worse that not only did they finish behind France and Switzerland in the qualifiers and fail to beat either, but even Israel finished above them.

Stop with the sour grapes and wishful thinking and have a look at results before you try to hint that a team which finishes fourth in a qualifying group has some divine right to be at the World Cup.

If that quote is directed at me, then you need to read my original post more clearly.

I dont think Ireland, or anybody, has a divine right to be at the World Cup.

Judging by the Swiss, I'd say we dont have any right to be there at all.

I never expressed any sour grapes, I just said that if we were worse than the Swiss, which we are, then we must be a very poor side indeed.